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Kent, there are other variables in diving the Lusitania! The Irish =
government have put a protection order on her as it is thought that some =
valuable art is contained in lead casing on the Lucy.At the moment, you =
need permission from Bemis and the Heritage Dept. to dive her. If Bemis =
gives permission and you dont bother with the Heritage permission, your =
boat and gear WILL be impounded! The Irish navy WILL get to know you are =
there and pay you a visit.All helium purchases are reported to the base =
in HAULBOWLIN, in Cork. And it`s a simple matter of evaluating the =
amount of He for its possible use.If you arrive by sea with all your =
gases on board, your presence will also be noted as the skipper will =
have made radio contact and shipping is tracked anyway. Also, you need =
to secure chamber facilities, which of course is a big, we`re diving =
deep sign. So Kent, public waters are whatever limit the sovereign =
country imposes.Our`s are a 200 mile limit from shore. Which means, we =
own all the water down the west coast of the UK :-). Jack.=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kent Lind=20
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com=20
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 8:54 PM
Subject: RE: Estonia=20
I'm curious.
=20
How far can a vessel owner go to prevent divers from diving on a wreck =
that is sitting in public waters?
=20
Obviously the Lucy and other wrecks are sitting in navigable waterways =
and the "owners" of the wrecks have no authority to prevent vessels from =
transiting over or near them.
=20
So what exactly does one need permission for? Anchoring on or near =
the wreck? Approaching within X-meters on scuba gear? Actual =
penetration of the wreck?
=20
If I wanted to just swim down and look at the Lucy without touching it =
or penetrating, do I need permission to do that?
=20
Are such regulations international or do they vary from country to =
country?
=20
Kent Lind
Juneau, Alaska
-----Original Message-----
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 12:51 PM
To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: RE: Estonia=20
I received this from John Grogan and he said I could post it as he =
has problems posting.Just more to confirm the character of Bemis.=20
Hi JT,=20
Let me tell you about my interation with Bemis. A group of us (in =
UK)=20
decided in 97 that we wanted to dive the Lucy, so I phoned Bemis and =
talked=20
to him about it and gave him a brief rundown on who we were. He told =
me=20
that there would be a fee but it was just to cover his legal costs =
etc and=20
assured me that it would not be much. Well, over the course of a few =
months, it went from a max of $500, then to at least $500, then to =
at least=20
500 Pounds, then to 500 Pounds per day. (500 Pounds =3D $750)
At the same time, he kept changing other conditions. First he wanted =
to see=20
our cert. cards - no problem, then he wanted to see our log books - =
no=20
problem we told him, but pointed out that some people don't log =
their dives.=20
Then we wanted fully authenticated copies of all our dive logs and =
cert.=20
cards. When asked what "fully authenticated copies of our logs" =
meant, we=20
got no answer.
Next, he was unhappy with our choice of dive boat because the =
skipper had=20
skippered another trip where he suspected the divers removed =
artifacts.=20
After talking with the skipper at length, he arranged for us to use =
a=20
different boat for the days we were doing the Lucy (we had 1 week =
planned=20
with 3 days on the Lucy).
In the end we just gave up because everytime we came close to =
meeting his=20
requirements, new ones surfaced. The guy cannot be trusted and you =
should=20
never believe anything from him until you've got it on paper.
I've twice heard him speak at conferences and at one he kept going =
on about=20
preserving the wreck and then later talked about using explosives to =
get to=20
the part of the bow on the seabed!
Best,=20
John.
-----Original Message-----=20
From: Capt JT [mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]=20
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 4:28 AM=20
To: Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*; TechDiver@aquanaut.com=20
Subject: RE: Estonia
Gary's book is not the only source of my information, I also have =
read=20
Robert=20
"You can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get =
in the water"
Your Guide to Great Wreck Diving along the East Coast & more
Web Site http://www.capt-jt.com/
Email captjt@mi*.co*
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kent, there are other variables in =
diving the=20
Lusitania! The Irish government have put a protection order on her as it =
is=20
thought that some valuable art is contained in lead casing on the =
Lucy.At=20
the moment, you need permission from Bemis and the Heritage Dept. =
to dive=20
her. If Bemis gives permission and you dont bother with the Heritage =
permission,=20
your boat and gear WILL be impounded! The Irish navy WILL get to =
know you=20
are there and pay you a visit.All helium purchases are reported to the =
base in=20
HAULBOWLIN, in Cork. And it`s a simple matter of evaluating the =
amount of=20
He for its possible use.If you arrive by sea with all your gases =
on board,=20
your presence will also be noted as the skipper will have made radio =
contact and=20
shipping is tracked anyway. Also, you need to secure chamber facilities, =
which=20
of course is a big, we`re diving deep sign. So Kent, public waters are =
whatever=20
limit the sovereign country imposes.Our`s are a 200 mile limit from =
shore. Which=20
means, we own all the water down the west coast of the UK :-). =
Jack.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:klind@al*.ne*" title=3Dklind@al*.ne*>Kent =
Lind</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver@aquanaut.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 20, 2000
=
8:54=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Estonia </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D310503723-20072000>I'm=20
curious.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D310503723-20072000>How far=20
can a vessel owner go to prevent divers from diving on a wreck that is =
sitting=20
in public waters?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D310503723-20072000>Obviously the Lucy and other wrecks are =
sitting in=20
navigable waterways and the "owners" of the wrecks have no authority =
to=20
prevent vessels from transiting over or near
them.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D310503723-20072000>So what=20
exactly does one need permission for? Anchoring on or near the=20
wreck? Approaching within X-meters on scuba gear? Actual=20
penetration of the wreck?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D310503723-20072000>If I=20
wanted to just swim down and look at the Lucy without touching it or=20
penetrating, do I need permission to do that?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D310503723-20072000>Are such=20
regulations international or do they vary from country to=20
country?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D310503723-20072000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D310503723-20072000>Kent=20
Lind</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D310503723-20072000>Juneau,=20
Alaska</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Capt JT=20
[mailto:captjt@mi*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 20, =
2000 12:51=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B>
techdiver@aquanaut.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: =
Estonia=20
<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>I received this from John Grogan and he
said I =
could=20
post it as he has problems posting.Just more to confirm the =
character of=20
Bemis. <BR>Hi JT, <BR>Let me tell you about my interation with =
Bemis. A=20
group of us (in UK) <BR>decided in 97 that we wanted to dive the =
Lucy, so I=20
phoned Bemis and talked <BR>to him about it and gave him a brief =
rundown on=20
who we were. He told me <BR>that there would be a fee but it was =
just to=20
cover his legal costs etc and <BR>assured me that it would not be =
much.=20
Well, over the course of a few <BR>months, it went from a max of =
$500, then=20
to at least $500, then to at least <BR>500 Pounds, then to 500 =
Pounds per=20
day. (500 Pounds =3D $750)<BR>At the same time, he kept changing =
other=20
conditions. First he wanted to see <BR>our cert. cards - no problem, =
then he=20
wanted to see our log books - no <BR>problem we told him, but =
pointed out=20
that some people don't log their dives. <BR>Then we wanted fully=20
authenticated copies of all our dive logs and cert. <BR>cards. When =
asked=20
what "fully authenticated copies of our logs" meant, we <BR>got no=20
answer.<BR>Next, he was unhappy with our choice of dive boat because =
the=20
skipper had <BR>skippered another trip where he suspected the divers =
removed=20
artifacts. <BR>After talking with the skipper at length, he arranged =
for us=20
to use a <BR>different boat for the days we were doing the Lucy (we =
had 1=20
week planned <BR>with 3 days on the Lucy).<BR>In the end we just =
gave up=20
because everytime we came close to meeting his <BR>requirements, new =
ones=20
surfaced. The guy cannot be trusted and you should <BR>never believe =
anything from him until you've got it on paper.<BR>I've twice heard =
him=20
speak at conferences and at one he kept going on about =
<BR>preserving the=20
wreck and then later talked about using explosives to get to <BR>the =
part of=20
the bow on the seabed!<BR><BR>Best, <BR>John.<BR>-----Original =
Message-----=20
<BR>From: Capt JT [<A href=3D"mailto:captjt@mi*.co*"=20
eudora=3D"autourl"><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><U>mailto:captjt@mi*.co*</A></FONT></U>] =
<BR>Sent:=20
Thursday, July 20, 2000 4:28 AM <BR>To: Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*;=20
TechDiver@aquanaut.com <BR>Subject: RE: Estonia<BR><BR>Gary's book
=
is not=20
the only source of my information, I also have read <BR>Robert =
<BR><BR>"You=20
can't learn to dive on the net, sooner or later you have to get in =
the=20
water"<BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff><U>Your Guide to Great Wreck
Diving =
along the=20
East Coast & more<BR> Web Site <A=20
href=3D"http://www.capt-jt.com/"=20
=
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.capt-jt.com/</A><BR>Email =
=20
=
captjt@mi*.co*<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></U><
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