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AL i think you r drunk... Al Marvelli wrote: Manos, > please spend a little more time trying to understand what you read before you flame,or > just pull your head out of your ass ( maybe from your ass ) > I covered the topics your on here, in my first posts. and dont think my ring changes > from single to double, except for the blt, the size of the wing and type of� tank. For f.. sake can you tell me how your rig doesnt change ? Dont tell me that you have the primary and backup reg on the same post ? Do you expect everyone to play with bolds and nuts when deciding to switch from double to singles ? > � > less is best. take only what you need. if you dont need it dont bring it. In the same logic of yours� i dont need the rule of thirts ill take as mach air as i need > � > better yet explain to me why i need a second reg, 160 cuft of gas and an isolator to > do a no deco dive in 50 ft of water . > > I said i wouldnt dive beyound 50ft without them > Just because you are a "technical diver" does not make every dive a "technical dive" > � OH! yes it does and this is the beuty of it!!! > � > Al Marvelli. > > Manos Manoli wrote: > > > I know that im steering up trouble here but what the heck is going on > > from� those conversations i figure out that some divers use 2-3 > > different configuration for different dive profiles this is stupid. > > Do it the expensive but save way guys so we finish this stupid > > conversation. USE ALWAYS THE SAME SETUP and change > > only your tank size depending on the dive. > > > > I Have a set of 15Ltr , for deep dives� a set of� 10 Ltr steel > > for shallow and a set of Alu80 all with isolation manifold. Stick a Weight > > in them depending on their buoyancy and do what ever dive you like 100 meters > > or 10 meters.� Weight belts and technical divers ( not diving ) do not fit in the > > same basket. > > I could post more than 12 reasons why. > > > > Why the hell should i carry a single tank why not dive always with the same > > configuration but different tank sizes. > > > > If i had a single which i don't ( only stage tanks ) When should i decide when to > > take the single and when > > the doubles.. open your eyes is not matter of gas amount is matter of safety and > > redundancy. > > > > I will never jump in the water and decent with a single beyond 15 meters ... > > > > That way i always know where everything ALWAYS is and i will never end up > > jumping in to the water by mistake with a weight belt loaded for� alu when i have > > steel > > on my back . > > > > Manos > > > > > > > > Jim Cobb wrote: > > > > > Al, I think you are getting too much information from James Bond films. What > > > is the matter with a swimming controlled ascent? My single tank rig uses no > > > weight belt for warm waters. I have a 14lb backplate for AL singles and a > > > 5lb backplate for steel singles. This is all I need. > > > > > > Should I have to head to the surface I point my head in that direction and > > > kick my feet. And yes, I have been trying to steer this conversation back to > > > the technical arena but without much luck. Our basic disagreement seems to > > > be that I think you should be neutrally buoyant in the water without a > > > weightbelt and that you think you should neutrally buoyant with one. I > > > really don't care what rec divers use, I simply don't like weight belts and > > > can live without one. > > > > > > I also cannot resist pointing out that just about all of the DAN fatalities > > > died with their weightbelts on. For some reason panicking divers don't want > > > to drop them. Figure that one out. > > > > > >��� Jim > > >� ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >� Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > > > > > From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*> > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 19:38:17 -0400 > > > > To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> > > > > Cc: Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > Subject: Re: Making sure this dead horse is thoroughly beaten (wasRe: > > > > Computers WAS Re: Oxygen Toxicity - using 100% in open water) > > > > > > > > Stop waffling jim. > > > > > > > > Explain why you told a single tank diver doing no deco profiles to use non > > > > ditchable > > > > weight. > > > > > > > > Nevermind that I have made the distinction between tech and rec in several of > > > > my > > > > replies, just explain the logic behind your sage advice there my friend. > > > > > > > > When the single tank guy has a first stage failure, does he just "drop down" > > > > to deal > > > > with it? Or are you going to suggest that everyone use doubles regardless of > > > > depth > > > > and planned profile? < the phrases " less is best" and "take only what you > > > > need" > > > > keep ringing in my ears> > > > > > > > > and exactly who are these techdivers who cant master the weightbelt? is it > > > > really > > > > such a difficult piece of equipment to use? is there too much taskloading to > > > > use a > > > > belt for ndl diving? for single tank open water diving? 60 ft or less diving? > > > > give > > > > me a freaking break. > > > > > > > > I am getting the feeling you technophilliacs are not understanding the > > > > distinction > > > > between deco and non deco diving. > > > > > > > > For the record I personally� use a weight belt with singles and the wet suit, > > > > and > > > > with al doubles in either suit, but i really only need the belt when the tanks > > > > are > > > > below 1000psi, and i try not to put them there. Otherwise i am dry in double > > > > psts, > > > > and dont need extra weight. > > > > > > > > btw JIm, if you watch the james bond film Goldeneye, youll see a european helo > > > > with > > > > an ejection seat, that works at zero altitude. They are not a new invention. > > > > > > > > later, > > > > > > > > Al Marvelli > > > > > > > > PS if you want, ill send you my phone# and we can chat this out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim Cobb wrote: > > > > > > > >> OK Al, lets talk about reasons to dump your weightbelt and bolting to the > > > >> surface. When you techdive this is a mindset that you have to get rid of. > > > >> You are abandoning your safety-net of bolting to the surface as an option. > > > >> You have to equip yourself to deal with the problem at the bottom. To do > > > >> this you equip yourself with redundant, high quality, well maintained > > > >> equipment and use an effective buddy team. > > > >> > > > >> This does not scare me. What does scare me is having a 30min 20ft stop > > > >> obligation and having to hold on to an anchorline for dear life because your > > > >> stupid weight belt fell off. I maintain that you are figuring on, perhaps > > > >> counting on that bolt for the surface as your last ditch grasp at life. This > > > >> is a bad option as you can die from bends and embolisms. And no, you don't > > > >> need a PFO to embolise. > > > >> > > > >> Let's look at airplanes vs. helicopters. Airplanes can be equipped with an > > > >> ejector seat. Helicopters can't due to that rather large whirling blade > > > >> directly over the cockpit. Why do pilots fly helicopters then? Because they > > > >> have alternative plans when the shit hits the fan, but ejecting is not one > > > >> of them. Same with techdiving. Dropping a weightbelt will not save your > > > >> life. Perhaps make your body recoverable but that's about it. > > > >> > > > >> Jim > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > >> > > > >>> From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*> > > > >>> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 23:23:33 -0400 > > > >>> To: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> > > > >>> Cc: Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > >>> Subject: Re: Making sure this dead horse is thoroughly beaten (wasRe: > > > >>> Computers WAS Re: Oxygen Toxicity - using 100% in open water) > > > >>> > > > >>> Jim, > > > >>> > > > >>> rec,tech or smeck, if you are completely out of gas you GO UP. Up is where > > > >>> you > > > >>> can > > > >>> breathe, and when you are out of gas you will want to be there as fast as > > > >>> possible. > > > >>> cmon this cant be so hard to understand. > > > >>> > > > >>> If you need to you can either get more gas< and a watchful eye> and go back > > > >>> down or > > > >>> you get on the boat and wait for redemption or the USCG Dalphine/helo. > > > >>> > > > >>> NOw the issue of weighting vs overweighting is a seperate one, if you are > > > >>> doing it > > > >>> right or correctly or compton style or whatever the hell its called this > > > >>> week, > > > >>> you > > > >>> are not overweighted, you are balanced. I understand balanced as weighted so > > > >>> that at > > > >>> the end of the dive you have enuff the weight to compensate for the lost > > > >>> gas, > > > >>> but > > > >>> not so much that you require extra floation to hold a stop, or just be > > > >>> neutral. If > > > >>> you are at or near neutral at the surface, then at depth losing the belt is > > > >>> no > > > >>> great > > > >>> problem. If you are paying attention to the belt, its a non issue. if you > > > >>> can > > > >>> not > > > >>> dive a weiht belt, you dont need to be using doubles or bolting weight to > > > >>> yourelf, > > > >>> you need to lean how to use that belt, preferrably in shallow water. > > > >>> > > > >>> I see this as the fundametal difference between us, i prefer skills to > > > >>> equipment for > > > >>> problem solving. You are free to hold a diffenet opinion, butyou have not > > > >>> convinced > > > >>> me to change mine yet. > > > >>> > > > >>> If you need to you shold be able to get rid of this weight; again please > > > >>> explain to > > > >>> me what one is supposed to do if they cannot and they are out of gas or do > > > >>> not > > > >>> have > > > >>> the necessary redundancy. Cannister lights are great, but again if we are > > > >>> discussing > > > >>> the open water diver we are most likely not discussing a cannister lite, and > > > >>> you > > > >>> were giving advice to people who were going to mount p weights to backplates > > > >>> in > > > >>> addition to hard mounting their lights to their plates on single tanks; not > > > >>> very > > > >>> smart on their part imho. > > > >>> > > > >>> And arent the people who embolize from just going up the ones with pfo's? > > > >>> the > > > >>> ones > > > >>> who shouldnt be diving to begin with?besides we are not talking about this > > > >>> as > > > >>> a > > > >>> standard practice but rather as an emergency procedure. If you this more > > > >>> than > > > >>> twice > > > >>> when its not practice, you need more instruction or more practice. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> btw the w/e diving wasnt bad, scootered the San Diego on sat, lizzie D and > > > >>> mistletoe > > > >>> on sun, 2 ft seas both days.Not exactly the bmf, but it will do for now. > > > >>> > > > >>> rgds, > > > >>> > > > >>> Al Marvelli > > > >>> > > > >>> Jim Cobb wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Al, I can't imagine any scenario either rec or tech were dropping a weight > > > >>>> belt and rocketing to the surface does a diver any good. If you get > > > >>>> yourself > > > >>>> neutral where you can do a controlled swimming ascent to the surface you > > > >>>> are > > > >>>> better off. You don't need to be in deco to die of an embolism. Many people > > > >>>> dive way over-weighted because it is so easy to add a bunch of weight to a > > > >>>> weight belt. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Not using a weight belt forces a diver to get his buoyancy right for a > > > >>>> particular type of diving. In my case I always take my canister light, this > > > >>>> suffices for me. In a tech scenario you need the extra weight with AL > > > >>>> doubles and a wetsuit due to their buoyancy characteristics. Even in this > > > >>>> situation you use just enough weight to be neutral, not a ton so you rocket > > > >>>> to the surface at the slightest difficulty. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Jim > > > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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