Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
CAM, The main reason most people have a hard time reaching their tanks values while using a single tank on a back plate is simple... The modern back plates (AL,SS or ABS) are designed for doubles! Adapting them to a single tank works but spaces the tank MUCH further away from the your back. This is a combination of the shape of the plate, the adapter and (mostly) the ridge in the center of the plate! Changing your tank, to a longer, bigger or what ever - does not accomplish much. >>>>>I cannot reach it because the tank is too short; it is only a 95. Maybe a 104 would be easier. It is already up as high as it can go in the Halcyon single tank adapter and still engage both straps. I have the Halcyon ACB system. It kind of gets in the way, and it doesn't solve the problem of being extremely buoyant if you take your gear off. In fact, I think I originally got rid of it because George said it was not DIR, and someone else commented that I needed to be able to take off my gear and not float away. I couldn't see a way around that argument, so I got rid of the ACB. Also, I have two back plates (one Al, one SS), so moving the ACB system from one to the other would be a pain, or I'd have to get two. Cam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mcinnis, Don" <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*> To: "'Cam Banks'" <cam@ca*.co*>; "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*>; "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 2:02 PM Subject: RE: Weights > If you are needing dropable weights, look at the Halcyon ACB system. It is > dropable weight that is on the waist strap and doesn't require a sepatare > belt. > > With your H valve setup, are you riding the tank too low to not be able to > reach it? It seems like that defeats a lot of the purpose of them if you > can't reach it without being able to get to it. > > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cam Banks [mailto:cam@ca*.co*] > Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 12:20 AM > To: Jim Cobb; Techdiver Mailing List > Subject: Re: Weights > > > I have dove in current a bit and in a wreck (once). It doesn't seem > ridiculous to > think about having to take off your gear as a last resort to get unstuck, > and not being absolutely pinned to the ceiling during the process would be > nice. > > Also, when I'm diving my single tank on a backplate, I really can't even > reach either of my H-valve handles without undoing the waist strap and > pulling the rig halfway over my head. > > As far as not going into any holes where my gear might get caught up, well, > I think I'd classify any wreck as such a hole. > > Really, I'm just trying to get a consensus on weight belts and DIR, but it > still seems unclear. I think I am going to go with a 12 pounder and P/V > weights for the rest. The 20 pounder is killing my back, that's for sure. > > Cam > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Cobb" <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*> > To: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > Fighting invisible dragons is a common problem with divers from what I've > > seen. Preparing for all sorts of horrible scenarios means loading more and > > more and more ridiculous gear all over you which ultimately become the > > source of the problem. > > > > If you have ever been inside a wreck or if you have ever dove in any > current > > you would realize how ridiculous the thought of doffing your gear is. If > > getting out of your gear is part of the plan, for example those nuts who > > explore the inside of deep U-boats, then by all means use weightbelts etc. > > > > But 99% of your diving will not involve taking off your rig so why plan > for > > that 1% when there are so many other alternatives available? For example > > don't go into any holes where your gear might get caught up. Quite a > > concept, eh? > > > > Jim > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > > > > From: "Cam Banks" <cam@ca*.co*> > > > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:56:45 -0700 > > > To: "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*>, "dmdalton" <dmdalton@qu*.ne*> > > > Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > I could easily imagine getting tangled on something you could not cut in > a > > > wreck (cable, thick net, whatever), and having to take off your gear to > > > disentangle. Is this just my overactive imagination, or is it a valid > > > scenario? Not just an academic question, as I plan to be doing a lot of > > > wreck diving in my dive career. > > > > > > Cam > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Trey" <trey@ne*.co*> > > > To: "Cam Banks" <cam@ca*.co*>; "dmdalton" <dmdalton@qu*.ne*>; > > > "Steve" <se2schul@uw*.ca*>; "John McMillan" > <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > > Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 3:07 AM > > > Subject: Re: Weights > > > > > > > > >> I don't take off my gear. But, you need to be able to stay down with > > > little > > >> or no gas, as in an emergency , and you need to be able to get up by > > >> dropping something. You guys figure it out. Also, for boat diving, you > do > > >> not want some massive overweighing on the gear so that if you take it > off > > > to > > >> get into the boat, and there is some problem you will not lose it. > Also, > > >> you do not want some huge heavy rig while walking around on a boat at > > > sea - > > >> too stupid. > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Cam Banks <cam@ca*.co*> > > >> To: dmdalton <dmdalton@qu*.ne*>; Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*>; > John > > >> McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > >> Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >> Date: Monday, June 19, 2000 4:17 AM > > >> Subject: Re: Weights > > >> > > >> > > >>> I think I went through this with George a while ago, and the net > effect > > > of > > >>> his answer was that you need to be able to take off your gear without > > > being > > >>> ridiculously buoyant. So, I'm shooting for about a 12-lb weightbelt > as a > > >>> compromise between the least weight on my waist possible and not being > > > able > > >>> to take off my gear. > > >>> > > >>> Of course, the dangers of "george said this" are manifold, but that's > at > > >>> least how I recall it. Basically, you also need to be wearing enough > > >> weight > > >>> to offset the buoyancy you will gain as you consume your gas, wherever > > > you > > >>> put it. > > >>> > > >>> Cam > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "dmdalton" <dmdalton@qu*.ne*> > > >>> To: "Steve" <se2schul@uw*.ca*>; "John McMillan" > > >>> <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > >>> Cc: "Techdiver Mailing List" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >>> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 9:19 AM > > >>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> Couple of thoughts on this issue: > > >>>> > > >>>> If you are going to say you must be in a neutral state without you > gear > > >> on > > >>>> (just you and your exposure suit) they you must figure what you need > to > > >>>> offset your exposure suit - consequently it can't be just a 6# weight > > >>> belt. > > >>>> > > >>>> If you are diving trilaminate your buoyancy factor is consistent from > > > the > > >>>> surface to whatever depth you are going to dive - assuming you dive > it > > >>> right > > >>>> and only add enough gas to take the pinch off. With this suit you > will > > >>> need > > >>>> 16-30# based on your undergarments and your size. A 6# belt would not > > >>> offer > > >>>> much help in keeping you balanced without your other gear. > > >>>> > > >>>> If you are diving a neoprene drysuit or a wet suit, you will NEVER > have > > > a > > >>>> balanced situation except at one depth. If you are neutral at the > > >> surface > > >>>> with a 20# belt you will be negative 10# at 33fsw. Not exactly > > >> "balanced". > > >>>> > > >>>> The definition of "balanced" that I understand (and utilize) is that > > > your > > >>>> gear (with tanks between 0 & 500 psi) allow you to be neutral with no > > > air > > >>> in > > >>>> your wings/BC at 10-20 ft. That way the only excess weight your > > > wings/BC > > >>> has > > >>>> to provide lift for is the weight of the air in your tanks at the > start > > >> of > > >>> > > >>>> your dive, allowing you to dive smaller (=less drag) wings) (assuming > > > you > > >>>> dive trilaminate). > > >>>> > > >>>> Use your head. > > >>>> > > >>>> Dave > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>> From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > >>>> To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > >>>> Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 11:30 PM > > >>>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi John, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I honestly can't think of a situation that would require you to take > > >> off > > >>>> all > > >>>>> your gear underwater besides getting stuck in a restriction so small > > >>> that > > >>>>> you shouldn't have been diving it anyway. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I think that the chances of getting into a situation needing full > > > gear > > >>>>> removal is so slight that it doesn't warrant a weight belt. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Weight belts do have their place in diving, I still use mine quite > > >>>>> frequently depending on the setup I'm using, I just never dive it > > > with > > >>>> more > > >>>>> than 6 lbs now. Even getting rid of those 6 lbs makes a huge > > >> difference > > >>>> for > > >>>>> comfort. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> So John, what likely scenarios require you to take all your gear > off? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Steve > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>> From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > >>>>> To: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > >>>>> Cc: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 5:05 PM > > >>>>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> "Gi Day" Steve. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Steve you said it in your last comment "WEAR A BALANCED RIG". > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> If and WHEN the shit hits the fan and the diver has no choice but > > > to > > >>> get > > >>>>> out > > >>>>>> of his gear. > > >>>>>> If the diver independent of his rig is balanced, the task loading > > > in > > >> a > > >>>>>> highly stressed situation will be significantly reduced. > > >>>>>> If you need to add weight to your rig to achieve this balance then > > > do > > >>>> so, > > >>>>> a > > >>>>>> P/V weight in this case would be practical. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> The guys that don't take their gear off under water if its the only > > >>> way > > >>>> to > > >>>>>> fix the problem DIE. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I also hate wearing a weight belt, however it doesn't have to be > > > too > > >>>> heavy > > >>>>>> as it is only adjusting the buoyancy of the diver not the Diver and > > >>> the > > >>>>> rig. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Hoo Roo > > >>>>>> Johnny Mack > > >>>>>> Down Under. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>> From: Steve <se2schul@uw*.ca*> > > >>>>>> To: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*>; Techdiver Mailing > > > List > > >>>>>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 1999 11:48 PM > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Since when does a P/V weight constitute weights "all over the > > > place > > >>>> "??? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Why is a weight belt more effective? Why are you taking your > > > gear > > >>> off > > >>>>>>> underwater? > > >>>>>>> Think about this... Pressed Steel 104s + Drysuit + SS backplate = > > >> no > > >>>>>>> additional weight! > > >>>>>>> What do those guys do when they take off their gear underwater? > > >>> They > > >>>>>> don't. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Comfort-wise, I hate weight belts with a passion. Getting rid of > > >> it > > >>>>> will > > >>>>>>> provide more comfort, less wear on your exposure suit, and better > > >>>>> airflow > > >>>>>>> through your drysuit. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Getting up off the bottom is easy... dive a balanced rig. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> steve > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>>> From: John McMillan <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > > >>>>>>> To: Techdiver Mailing List <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 7:30 AM > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I read a lot of crap in the many posts that have been presented > > >>> over > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> last few days regarding weighting. Most of the suggestions have > > >>> been > > >>>>>> down > > >>>>>>>> right bloody dangerous, stupid, and idiotic. Hey guys what > > >>> happened > > >>>> to > > >>>>>>>> keeping it simple. We should weight ourselves with out tanks > > >>> harness > > >>>>> etc > > >>>>>>>> attached, just negative. if we are still negative with the > > > tanks > > >>> and > > >>>>>>> harness > > >>>>>>>> etc on then we are correctly weighted. Using the traditional > > >>> weight > > >>>>> belt > > >>>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>> the most effective way of doing this. Have a bloody good think > > >>> about > > >>>>> why > > >>>>>>> you > > >>>>>>>> should be weighted this way before you make any comments. The > > >> guys > > >>>>> that > > >>>>>>> want > > >>>>>>>> to wear tank weights etc all over the place have a think about > > >>>>> buoyancy > > >>>>>>>> control if you have to take your gear off in water at depth. If > > >>> and > > >>>>> when > > >>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> shit hits the fan and you have to do this with weights all over > > >>> your > > >>>>>> gear > > >>>>>>>> "good luck". > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hoo Roo > > >>>>>>>> Johnny Mack > > >>>>>>>> Down Under > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>>>> From: John Walker <techdive@ea*.ne*> > > >>>>>>>> To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:11 AM > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Hell Cobber they give me a sore back. I'd bet Mike Black > > >>> (you > > >>>>>> know, > > >>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> guy that doesn't dive) would consider this a Type 2 DCS hit. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Dr. John Walker > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>>>>> From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ma*.ci*.co*> > > >>>>>>>>> To: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*>; Paul Braunbehrens > > >>>>>>>>> <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > > >>>>>>>>> Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 9:02 AM > > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Weight belt for wetsuits. Weight belt fucks up the airflow > > > in > > >>>> your > > >>>>>>>> drysuit > > >>>>>>>>>> and is a failure point. I hate weight belts. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Jim > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>>>>> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/ > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> From: Al Marvelli <ajmarve@ba*.ne*> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 03:24:40 -0400 > > >>>>>>>>>>> To: Paul Braunbehrens <Bakalite@ba*.co*> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Weights > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I dont mean to flame Paul personally but I have to ask > > > some > > >>>>> simple > > >>>>>>>>> questions > > >>>>>>>>>>> here. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Why is the weight belt not ideal? its cheap, easy to > > > learn, > > >>>> and > > >>>>>>> found > > >>>>>>>>>>> everywhere. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> The belt gives you a built in failure indicator< if you > > > are > > >>>>> paying > > >>>>>>>>> attnetion > > >>>>>>>>>>> you can feel it slip, and thats easy to correct on your > > >> own> > > >>>> and > > >>>>>> if > > >>>>>>>> its > > >>>>>>>>>>> under you crotch stap has a built in anti ditch safety. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> and also > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> what is the facination with non ditchable weight? > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> especially on a rig that is limited to no stop diving by > > >>>>>>> definition?? > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I can understand its significance on a deco dive, but you > > >>> all > > >>>> do > > >>>>>>>> realize > > >>>>>>>>>>> that if your worst fears come true and you undergo a > > >> buoyant > > >>>>>> ascent > > >>>>>>> , > > >>>>>>>>> you > > >>>>>>>>>>> are merely performing skills practice?? That evey agency > > >> has > > >>>>> blow > > >>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>> go > > >>>>>>>>> as > > >>>>>>>>>>> its last resort for ndl diving? > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> have any of you removed your weights during a dive? what > > >> was > > >>>> the > > >>>>>>>> result? > > >>>>>>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>>>> had my belt off three times in front of the class i was > > >>>> helping > > >>>>>> with > > >>>>>>>>> tonite, > > >>>>>>>>>>> no problem with an al 80 with an al plate and a 1/4 suit > > >> in > > >>>> 12 > > >>>>> ft > > >>>>>>> of > > >>>>>>>>> water, > > >>>>>>>>>>> i had plenty of time to dump the bc and remain with my > > >>> weight > > >>>>> belt > > >>>>>>>> with > > >>>>>>>>> just > > >>>>>>>>>>> a little effort. Are we all just not paying attention? > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> worried about buckle failure? wear two. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> We are not even going to get into the pony bottle, but > > > fyi > > >>> my > > >>>>>>>>> understanding > > >>>>>>>>>>> of hogarthian means ultra minimal as in no reserve gas, > > >> even > > >>>> in > > >>>>>>>>> overhead. > > >>>>>>>>>>> and of course the bottle is unnecessary for anything, you > > >>> can > > >>>>>> either > > >>>>>>>>> blow > > >>>>>>>>>>> and go or you cant and if you cant you need a real > > >> redundant > > >>>>>> system, > > >>>>>>>> not > > >>>>>>>>> 13 > > >>>>>>>>>>> freaking cu ft. This w/e i was forced to dive off the bow > > >>> b/c > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> customers > > >>>>>>>>>>> used up all the rack space with their pony bottles filled > > >>> with > > >>>>>>> nitrox > > >>>>>>>>> too > > >>>>>>>>>>> hot for the bottom< typical, they have all been hosed and > > >>>> regard > > >>>>>> dir > > >>>>>>>> as > > >>>>>>>>>>> internet bs>and then i had to endure the shop owners > > >>> bitching > > >>>>>> about > > >>>>>>> my > > >>>>>>>>>>> doubles being too much gear for the dives< which they > > > were, > > >>>> but > > >>>>> i > > >>>>>>>> needed > > >>>>>>>>>>> them empty and gas costs money so i aint freaking wasting > > >>>> it>so > > >>>>> i > > >>>>>> am > > >>>>>>>>> ready > > >>>>>>>>>>> for all comers on this pony bullshit. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> You dont need a pony bottle unless you are solo diving > > >>> without > > >>>> a > > >>>>>>> plan. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Think it through people. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Al Marvelli > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> PS if those two quarry guys dont send me snail addresses > > >> ill > > >>>>> never > > >>>>>>> be > > >>>>>>>>> able > > >>>>>>>>>>> to mail them schedules and since i lost my inbox i dont > > >>>>> havetheir > > >>>>>> e > > >>>>>>>>>>> addresses, so get back to me fellas. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Paul Braunbehrens wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> OK, I went through tons of archives last night, trying > > > to > > >>> get > > >>>>> to > > >>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>> bottom of this. First, let me tell you my setup. I'm > > >>> diving > > >>>> a > > >>>>>>>>>>>> backplate and wings, with a drysuit, and (for now) a > > >> single > > >>>>> tank > > >>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>>>>>> a pony bottle. Leaving enough air in my suit so I can > > >>> still > > >>>>> move > > >>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>>>>>> do a safety stop at the end of a dive, I need 17 pounds > > > on > > >>> my > > >>>>>> belt > > >>>>>>> (I > > >>>>>>>>>>>> dive in cold water). > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Right now this weight is on my weight belt, which is ok > > >> but > > >>>> not > > >>>>>>>> ideal. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Perusing the archives, it seems the consensus is to make > > > a > > >>> V > > >>>>>> weight > > >>>>>>>>>>>> for at least some of this. Let's say it will weigh > > > about > > >> 9 > > >>>>>> Pounds. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> This still leaves 8 pounds. I could then either leave > > >> that > > >>>> on > > >>>>> my > > >>>>>>>>>>>> weight belt, or I could put it in the Halcyon weight > > >>> pouches. > > >>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>>>>> assume that when I go to doubles I won't need most of it > > >>>>> anymore? > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, DiveRite sells a "trim weight" that will fit > > > between > > >>>> the > > >>>>>>> bolts > > >>>>>>>>>>>> on the backplate. I was thinking of this as an option. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I read a lot of posts saying the canister light is > > > 6 > > >>>>> pounds > > >>>>>>>>>>>> negative (or thereabouts). Mine is 1.5 pounds negative, > > >>>> which > > >>>>>>> means > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I have to account for that weight somewhere. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> One post I read which made a lot of sense, said that you > > >>>> should > > >>>>>>> have > > >>>>>>>>>>>> about 5 or 6 pounds of ditchable weight (if any). When > > >> you > > >>>>> ditch > > >>>>>>>>>>>> your weight you don't want to become so positive as to > > > end > > >>> up > > >>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>>>>> lunar orbit. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to get as close to hogarthian as possible > > >>> before > > >>>>>>> moving > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to doubles, so any help is appreciated. I'm even moving > > >> my > > >>>>>>> canister > > >>>>>>>>>>>> back on my harness (I had it upside down and attached to > > >>> the > > >>>>>>>>>>>> backplate, but I find that it has a tendency to sit on > > > the > > >>>>> wiring > > >>>>>>>>>>>> connection...not good). > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Braunbehrens mailto:Bakalite@ba*.co* > > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.daw-mac.com Mailing list for digital audio on > > >>> the > > >>>>> mac > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >>>>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >>>>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >>>>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >>>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >>>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >>>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >>>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >>>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >>>>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >>>>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > >>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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