We had one here a few months ago, drowned in 11 feet of water with a full
tank on his back. Had completed the PADI Advanced course, and was 3 dive's
into his new dry suit.

No one but him really knows what happened, and he doesn't care.

I see shit every weekend that you wouldn't believe. Students being taken out
in poor vis (1 instroketor, 5 students, no DM) being instructed to hold onto
the spg of the diver to their right in order to maintain contact. Vis of
about 5 feet.

Instroketor standing on *shore*, dry suit *open*, big ass knife on outside
of left leg, 10 students (victims) in the water in front of him, with 1 DM,
instructing his students on mask clearing, regulator recovery, and BC
donning/doffing. All of em wearing brand damn new Bio Fins. These people are
teaching the students in Hood Canal. Even on a major exchange, there is
never a current so fast you cant easily swim against it. 1 of the
Instroketors was wearing an OMS 100# Double bladder, single 85 cuft tank,
with a fucking strobe light in the epaulette of his IQ Pack. Again, big ass
knife on outside of his left leg, shit hanging every where, he even had a
retractor for his SPG and computer console, air integrated of course.

These 5 star dive centers are pumping the poor fuckers through as fast as
they can get them to sign a waiver, and enunciate "Recreational Dive
Planner."

Why do they still teach hanging an "octopus" off the front of you with a
scumball?

Its only getting worse.

Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mcinnis, Don" <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*>
To: "'Scott'" <scottk@hc*.co*>; "Tech list" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: Is there a thing like inofficial training?


> The best case in point for this is the PADI instructor requirements. You
> need a whole 100 dives of experience and an IDC (which is a joke at best)
> and you are "qualified" to turn out a bunch of weekend warriors. At 100
> dives most are still trying to grasp the concept that the bubbles travel
up,
> so that's where the surface is. This is the mentality that is at the heart
> of the problem. Until all agencies are non-profit organizations, and
> therefore mass producing divers is not tied to the bottom line of the
> agency, it will be BUSINESS AS USUAL. And the deaths will continue to
grow.
>
> Don
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott [mailto:scottk@hc*.co*]
> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2000 6:50 PM
> To: Tech list
> Subject: Re: Is there a thing like inofficial training?
>
>
> There are some divers that should never leave the pool without an
> instructor, and no matter how much training they receive, are never going
to
> be good divers.
>
> There are some divers that can do 180 feet on air with a garden hose and a
> bucket.
>
> There are some instructors that shouldn't teach anything to anyone.
>
> There are some instructors that should be drawing a check form the diving
> community as a whole, because of the absolute care and quality of what
they
> teach.
>
> I think *all* you people that go diving in little holes in the ground,
full
> of water are a couple fries short of a Happy Meal (TM).  =;-)
>
> Personally, I know many people who mix and dive trimix, homebuilt
> rebreathers and such who have no more formal training than a nitrox
course.
> I also know people with full trimix Instructor shingles that I wouldn't
dive
> in a  mud puddle with.
>
> The problem is this: Who is going to police diving? Who is going to be the
> one to say "No" ? And who decides who has that ability?
>
> When it comes to open water, you are on your own. You should be, and are,
> free to dive to whatever you think you are capable of. If you blow it, you
> gotta pay the fiddler. The other problem is that there is a lot of
bullshit
> propagated by certification agency's, that has been shown time and time
> again to be contributory to diving fatalities, yet the certification
agency
> refuses to change. So, what good is a shingle, really, in the first place?
>
> When you leave the surface, your life is in your own hands. What's between
> your ears is what decides. Shingles, c cards and all the training in the
> world wont help an egomaniac or idiot.
>
>  Scott
>
>  http://hood.hctc.com/~hsd/index.htm
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Claudia Milz" <cmilz@Mi*.ED*>
> > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Is there a thing like inofficial training? was Re: Bondage
Wings
> >
> >
> > > Just kicking off a discussion -
> > >
> > > A diver with "intro to cave" cert is scootering back in a cave,
> > > doubles on. This is not covered with his formal training.
> > > For what he was doing, he would have needed cave3 with GUE, or a
> > > scooter specialty on top of full cave.
> > >
> > > True, this is far away from each other. He could have just gotten the
> > > intro cert, average talented diver, *wrong gear*, average fitness,
> > > and the panicking hints that there was a huge lack of experience and
> > > therefore, an inability to make the right decisions (at that point,
> > > it was too late to find out that some dives are not so easy).
> > >
> > > But indeed, the lack of the right cert doesn't tell you a whole lot.
> > > Ehem, how many people have all the formal training they would
> > > officially need for their diving?
> > > I.e. a PADI diver without a "deep diver" cert isn't supposed to go
> > > deeper than 100'/30m. Which is a very good idea regarding narcosis.
> > > But who sticks to that? It is more than common practice to dive
> > > deeper than 60'/18m after the open water training. The chick (it
> > > really was one) with the poorest health who barely made it through
> > > the PADI exam (!!!) went to the Red Sea the weekend afterwards and
> > > did 100'+ dives. Another girl had made her cert on vacation and died
> > > on her 6th dive in cold low viz water, 110' deep.
> > >
> > > Maybe people are in general more careful when it comes to technical,
> > > esp. cave diving. But, some people find technical training overly
> > > expensive and play around with gear, deco and whatever without any
> > > clue. This is stupid to say the least, but it seems to be accepted,
> > > as long as nothing happens.
> > >
> > > So we have 3 cases:
> > > a) formal training first, dives to gain experience
> > > b) S#!+ on training
> > > c) informal training
> > >
> > > To make a long story short, how is c) regarded in the community?
> > > The prospective student shows the talent, mindset, etc, and knows his
> > > gear. Now an experienced diver *trains* him. The student is very
> > > good, doesn't have a problem, maybe shortcuts a bit.
> > >
> > > What if
> > > 1) something does happen on an 'inofficial' dive, even if
> > > formal training wouldn't have made a big difference.
> > >
> > > 2) everything's fine, the former student wants to do dives like
> > > this scooter dive in a cave, has knowledge and ability and - there
> > > are people who wouldn't let him, since he lacks the cert.
> > >
> > > What does the list think of liabilities and the moral
> > > responsibilities here?
> > >
> > > Thanks, and have a great weekend.
> > >
> > > Claudia
>
>
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