I know of several fatalities directly or indirectly attributable to failure
to maintain buoyancy control and none due to failure of a donar to be able
to get air in an out of air situation.  That is why DIR treats buoyancy
control as life support and keeps the bc on the right post.

When the shit hits the fan, especially including an ooa situation, whether
you have buoyancy control or not will probably determine if the problem gets
solved or accelerates to a cluster fuck.

As usual, Tom is on one side of the argument and DIR is on the other.  The
solution is intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer.

Jess

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
To: Simon Murray <simonm@ho*.co*.za*>; Tech Diver
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Date: Friday, February 25, 2000 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag


>Simon
>you said
>but the obvious issues e.g. BC on the left
>> post- if the rolls off AND breaks/bends (as I understand is possible) you
>> will be left without BC inflation.  Since dry suit inflation should come
>> from an Argon cylinder, it makes sense to connect the BC to the most
>robust
>> post- the right hand side.
>
>I think i would much rather have the BC inflator hose on my left post so
>that if I do bump or damage the valve handle, I will have a warning, This
to
>me is a much better decision than having had accidently had it closed or
>damaged and then get into an out of gas situtation and discover I had no
gas
>once I handed of my long hose. and then have to correct thesitutation. My
>way it is unlikely that I could get into the later situtation.
>
>Oral inflation of a BC is rather easy, for years that was the only way we
>did it. So loss of an inflation hose is not a real issue. plus when on gas
I
>use argon but have a separate hose from the right post that will fit either
>my dry suit of BC.
>When I dive wet still no problem. Maybe you should do two things have the
>extra hose is totally out of the way and maybe you should practice oral
>inflation of a BC it really is easy.
>
>Respectfully yours,
>Tom Mount
>CEO IANTD World HQ
>http://www.iantd.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Simon Murray <simonm@ho*.co*.za*>
>To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; Tech Diver
><techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 3:14 AM
>Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag
>
>
>> Thanks for the post, I had seen your earlier one regarding your equipment
>> configuration, but the detail you provided below makes the differences
>> clearer.
>>
>> While I can see several counter arguments to the ones you put forward
>below,
>> I dont think that I have anywhere near deep enough insight into how DIR
>> evolved to point out anything but the obvious issues e.g. BC on the left
>> post- if the rolls off AND breaks/bends (as I understand is possible) you
>> will be left without BC inflation.  Since dry suit inflation should come
>> from an Argon cylinder, it makes sense to connect the BC to the most
>robust
>> post- the right hand side.
>>
>> I look forward to the replies of more experienced DIR divers.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Simon Murray
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> To: Simon Murray <simonm@ho*.co*.za*>; Tech Diver
>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 8:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag
>>
>>
>> > Simon
>> > I already posted my personal configuration which is hogarthain but not
>> DIR;
>> > So if you have been following this you already have a copy of it if not
>> look
>> > into the archives
>> >
>> > First Difference I use a quick release on my harness in OW and wreck
>dives
>> > It is located on the lower left shoulder strap
>> >     Why, because a couple of years back I have a student in a trimix
>> course
>> > during the descent have problem and she bolted. I worked with her and
>got
>> > her to thesurface where she became passive incoherent and had me quite
>> > worried about an AGE. We were both in Continuous webbing. while I
>practice
>> > removing my gear all thetime while swimming and static in this
situation
>> > trying to maintain her stability I could not get hers or my gear off.
>Yes
>> I
>> > did cut her out and theboat did come to us but it took about two to
>three
>> > minutes cutting the WET webbing. As itturned out she did not have any
>> > problems but had she had an AGE that extra time could have cost her her
>> > life. Thus I immediately went to Brownies and had them install a Quick
>> > Release on my harness
>> >   IANTD in its trimix course requires a rescue and removal of all
>> equipment
>> > as PART of emergency response training. the equipment is removed within
>1
>> > 1/2 minutes. It is extremely rare that someone in a continuous webbed
>> > harness can complete this. Why the time limit because AGE has to have
>> quick
>> > response to save lives. Also try removing someone's equipment in a 4
>foot
>> > sea without a quick release and without half drowning them and you may
>see
>> > why my preference is to have a quick release.
>> > bottom line I use a quick release because it is an effective life
saving
>> > tool,
>> > And no it does not matter in cave diving's usually where a problem
exist
>> the
>> > last thing you would do is remove equipment inside a cave hundreds or
>> > thousands of feet in.
>> >  If you review the history with quick releases the incident of failure
>are
>> > so remote as not to be significant so I find the argument of if your
>Quick
>> > Release breaks on a cave dive you will lose your gear
>> >     In addition you can disconnect a Quick Release and swim the
>equipment
>> > without it coming off if you place the quick release on the lower
>shoulder
>> > strap. Fabio Amaral who runs the operation in Bikini did a complete
dive
>> > (extensive penetration) on the Saratoga and undid his quick release as
>> soon
>> > as he got in thewater. He did not even have to touch his gear theentire
>> dive
>> > . He  did snap it back before climbing up the dive ladder. I have done
>> > similar practice drills and had students do them no one yet has had the
>> > equipment shift or come off
>> >
>> >
>> > Second Difference All my hoses go straight down they don't criss cross.
>> > Basically I do not like a confused area behind my neck with criss
>crossing
>> > hoses.  This item is personal preference
>> >
>> > Third difference My BC inflation hose is on the left post with my back
>up
>> > regulator. Why because it is a probable warning if I accidentally bump
>the
>> > left post shut and it is in my opinion a clean setup.  As the only time
>> I'm
>> > ever negative is during descent the argument about a sudden loss of
>> buoyancy
>> > does not offset the advantage of the possible warning of a valve
>closure,
>> > Even should I have a buoyancy loss I can oral inflate my BC a skill I
do
>> > teach and practice.
>> >
>> > Fourth difference my dry suit inflation hose is on the right post, when
>> > using mix I use argon and the dry suit is inflated from the argon
>cylinder
>> > but I keep the extra hose under my shoulder harness and linked to the
>> argon
>> > hose so it does not create drag and can easily be connected in case of
a
>> > failure from the argon hose and I still keep my bc connected with its
>> normal
>> > inflator. Al hose connections are interchangeable BC and dry suit.
>> >
>> > Sixth difference is Instead of attaching theSPG to the waist D ring I
>> attach
>> > it using a short hi pressure hose to  a lower D ring on the left
>shoulder.
>> > It this position it remain at the d ring level rigid due to the hose
>> length
>> > and I can simply glance down and read it any time with or without
>stage(s)
>> >
>> > Seventh difference is I place my lift bag when diving off shore at the
>> base
>> > of my back plate as it is easy to remove and can be replaced and
creates
>> > zero drag and most of all is completely out of the way
>> >
>> > Long hose storing and breathing , light placement etc is all as in DIR
>> >
>> > So now Simon you see the difference and a brief explanation of why.
>> >
>> > I do not think there is anything wrong with DIR I just think that
>options
>> > such as the ones I use are logical and safe.
>> >
>> > I do think that continuous webbing in OW creates more of a possible
>> > liability than having a quick release and base that on my experience
>> > described above and on observation of others. In cave it really does
not
>> > matter
>> >
>> > Now I have no intention of responding to some of the yelling I imagine
>> will
>> > follow as it is not DIR but for some they may find this approach every
>bit
>> > as attractive and safe as DIR
>> >
>> > Basically I think good configuration comes from applying logic and
>> > application and listening to others. As I stated in an earlier post.
>> >
>> >
>> > Respectfully yours,
>> > Tom Mount
>> > CEO IANTD World HQ
>> > http://www.iantd.com
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: Simon Murray <simonm@ho*.co*.za*>
>> > To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; Tech Diver
>> > <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 10:06 AM
>> > Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>> > >
>> > > <snip>
>> > >
>> > > At the risk of getting in the middle...
>> > >
>> > > > Anyway if you would like to have this discussion then lets do it if
>> not
>> > > > then lets do as we agreed  per your request and drop the issue. It
>> would
>> > > be
>> > > > quite time consuming for both of us and whoever else elects to
>> > contribute.
>> > > > But it would be an actual open discussion for all to participate,
>> > > > Who knows we may all gain from such a presentation of configuration
>> > > issues.
>> > >
>> > > I know the DIR configuration *very* well so why dont you kick off by
>> > telling
>> > > us how your personal configuration differs from DIR and why it is
>better
>> > to
>> > > configure your way ?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Simon Murray
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]