Outstanding, Claus. Classic literature. I give it a ten.

I will quote one of our forefathers here, it somehow seems very appropriate:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of
servitude better than the animating contest of freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms.
Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your
chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye
were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams, speech at the
Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776.

People, especially non Americans, forget who us Americans are.

We have not been polite, cuddly, warm and fuzzy. All the men who founded our
country were men of substance, plantation owners, importers, doers. They got
sick of the status quo, and the unripened bullshit, and they put it on the
line. They lost everything. Homes, land, gold, silver, all forms of wealth.
And they buried their kin. They had *everything* to lose, but they rolled
out, and fought. And they won.

*No one* reading this list for anytime can accept the current marketing
monolith that dive training has become. The training is stupid, the gear
sucks a wang. People die. They die for several reasons. Some of those
reasons are directly attributable to training and gear configuration and
selection. How many people have to drown? WTF does any of this have to do
with being polite?

Why this has to do with America is simple. WKPP is here. DIR started here.
GI is a typical American. The people you "furiners" are bitching about lost,
long ago, their "class and culture". We are heathens, uneducated, ill
mannered and ill spoken. What do you expect???

Now, lets all discuss this amicably.

I have several questions:

1) Why is it OK for an instructor to teach an OC SCUBA class wearing a
rebreather?

2) Why is 80% even talked about anymore, let alone taught?

3) How come, except for right here, have we never heard about high 02 levels
oxidizing proteins in the alveoli after 12 to 14 minutes of exposure? Does
the TDI, PADI, NAUI or IANTD text contain these little pearls? Why not?

4) Why are there pony bottles?

5) Why are there "AIRII" inflator hose mounted AAS?

6) Why hasn't anyone come up with a p-valve for women?

Looking forward to some honest, polite, intelligent interchange.

Scott


----- Original Message -----
From: "Claus Lisberg" <stclaus@ma*.st*.dk*>
To: "Zeca" <staff@un*.co*.br*>; "techdiver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 4:00 AM
Subject: Re: stroke tee shirt /dive girl mag


> Zeca wrote:
>
> Zeca: Let me guess; you're a Stage 2 Loser at the moment? Hey, nothing to
be a
> shamed of; I was one too.
>
> > Dear Fellows,
> >
> > 1- I am sure the behavior of most people in this list is not so good for
> > the diving community's health in the world.
>
> I'm quite sure that bad practices being called just that *is* quite
healthy. If
> you got a problem with the message due to flawed logic within it, I would
> understand your objection. But it does sound as if this is another "u
d00ds R
> mean" post.
>
> > 2- It could be more productive if most of you considered themselves as
> > "experts" in diving, came to this and other lists, and bring to the
> > community good concerns, lessons, experiences and words of winsdon,
> > instead staying fighting each other, exposing their insatisfactions,
> > psycologic disturbs as well as the "Hollywood Syndrome".
>
> As many before me has pointed out, death is not polite. And there's
nothing polite
> about being killed because instructors whom you trust and pay follow
unsafe
> practices and techniques, and are even *encouraged* to do so by the
biggest, not
> leading, agencies. Something is wrong, Zeca, when you see tech instructors
not as
> potential educators but rather death traps eager to add another one to
their list
> of "accomplishments". I don't trust any IANTD instructors, Zeca, nor do I
trust
> any TDI ones after learning about the way they do business and learning
about the
> DIR philosophy. 99% of them don't get it when asked and instead become
arrogant
> assholes intent on not giving away an inch, even though I know, they know
and
> their friends know their logic is bullshit. They don't even *see* the
other side's
> argument.
>
> Good thing we have the Swedish Brothers in Scandinavia. I feel sorry for
large
> parts of the rest of the world.
>
> To argue passionately in the face of abject stupidity is not a sign of
some
> psychological disturbances. To *demand* a cute and cuddly atmosphere in
> discussions regarding very harsh realities is, however. I get pissed when
people
> screw around with my life just to make a little extra profit. I take it
you sit
> back and try to find some "common ground" between the two of you? Here's a
tip;
> the common ground is vaseline.
>
> > 3- I would like to say that, here in Brazil and in other countries that
> > I have visited, the opinion of the majority is that this list is a big
> > manifestation of psycologic disturbs and most of the people that have
> > been "discussing" here do not represent the real and healthy mental
> > divers in the USA.
>
> I honestly do not care what the majority of Brazilian divers or divers of
other
> nationalities say - 99% of them do not know what DIR is or do serious
diving. This
> cheap ass psychologizing is bullshit, and you know it. I think most
Brazilians
> suffer from psychological disturbances since they run around almost naked
playing
> music once a year. Yeah, built up sexual repressions, man. Please, if you
got
> something to say, attack the message where it is flawed, not the way it id
> delivered.
>
> > 4- I would like to ask a simple question : Did you guys have seem the
> > great names of our planet, stupidly exposing their concerns and
> > thoughts  in public with the primary objective of to create noises and
> > show up their EGO ? I guess no. Why not ? Think about that.
>
> Heh, the list if *uncompromising individuals* who has shaped the world is
*long*.
> In fact, you will find few wussies amongst them. Even the geekiest of
scientist is
> driven by a force that is hard to describe which leads him to kick ass and
take
> names.
>
> Not even Ghandi favoured the "let's all be friends" approach.
>
> > 5- As the history has comproved, this kind of behavior and manifestation
> > just contribute to generate more instatisfation and cause a very poor
> > image of the most professionals in the world.
>
> Look, I'd rather be disgruntled for a day with some bruised pride than
dead
> underseas forever.
>
> Damn it, it looks like people have wussed out since we became the dominant
> species. Life *is* harsh. Not getting any apple pie or people delivering a
message
> in a harsh way ain't very harsh compared to some of the shit *you*
encounter in
> technical *diving*. Or in normal diving, or even in your car on the way to
work.
>
> > 6- For those that have been defending with nail and tooth a determinate
> > configuration, philosophy and etc.. Think about that in the history of
> > our humanity there was not a single and unique TRUE.
>
> There are suck, good and damned good ways. The DIR philosophy is the
latter. Are
> you saying you cannot compare methods in terms of efficiency? If so you
hold the
> opinion that a spare air is a good choice for a long distance exploration
dive.
>
> > 7- Also, one of the many attributes of a good educator is just show the
> > "material" to the students and act as an true educator.
>
> Yeah, and show it for what it is. Show what's bullshit and why. That's
what the
> WK. boys are doing. Guess they are good educators according to your own
> definition.
>
> > 8- I think if the behavior of most the people here was changed,and was
> > more effective, the diving community in the world probably will feel
> > better, learn much more under a very professional and human environment.
>
> I think most people rate saving lives higher than keeping everyone cuddly
and
> happy, no?
>
> >
> > 9- If people here feel that acting this way will show experience,
> > knowledge and will become well known in the world, then know that it is
> > the opposite, because people have been making funny jokes about most
> > people in this list as well as have been creating a terrible image of
> > them as well as about some agencies and groups.
>
> Without bothering to find out for themselves. no? There are places where
they can
> learn about the DIR philosophy in very polite way - loads of web sites.
People
> who've bothered to check it out normally understand why there's a growing
> resentment towards the established industry.
>
> > 10- I think the representatives of significant groups and agencies,
> > should be careful about the consequences and results of this behavior in
> > the diving community and the diving industry.
>
> They are careful, which is why they're acting in the way they do, in the
case of
> GUE and the WKPP. In the case of IANTD and TDI, those organizations are
out of
> control, as the death toll shows.
>
> > I think instead of you guys, continuing to be not productive, and
> > generating poor discussion of who has the bigger....... think about take
> > a deep breath, make a consistent reflection and came to this list
> > bringing health contributions to our diving community.
>
> I regard this list as a very valuable learning tool and consider the DIR
gang
> *very* productive people who bring lots of contributions to this list.
Using a
> sometimes very direct language.
>
> > It is not also good for a people that belongs to the "First World" to
> > destroy and dirty this cultural and financial image.
>
> There's a reason we're the first world, and we're the because in the past
our
> ancestors have been some outright bastards. But, they've guaranteed that
we have
> the right to scream "fucking dumb" when we see something we regard as
fucking
> dumb. There are some good first world systems running, but people are
still people
> regardless of where they live.
>
> Now I firmly believe that you just have to get over your pride playing
games with
> you when you subscribe to this list - some of the things you do will most
likely
> be called "shit stupid", and for good reasons. It might even happen
several times
> with long periods of time between. For instance, I can fully expect a few
"fuck
> you, keep it short dickwad" posts because of my tendency to just go on and
on
> about things. Hopefully I'll learn.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> (Santa) Claus Lisberg
> Denmark
>
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

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