Andrew,

Trust me when I say that your generalizations, while perhaps founded in some
sincere attempt to save the world from the evils of PADI, are just like
generalizations made by countless others in all walks of life; there are
exceptions which cause them to be incorrect.
Rather than argue the specifics listed in your diatribe below (for I have
neither the time nor the inclination to take it apart for you using logic),
let me draw a simple imaginary dialog for you which will perhaps bring home
the point:

A NASCAR driver who has won the Winston cup 4 out of the last 11 years,
driven in the Daytona 500 and the Indy 500, is certified by every
professional driving association ever created, speaks to a high school
driver's education instructor, Bob:

"So really Bob, you are trying to be a good driver. Wow, first thing's
first quit the sniveling. Suck it up and learn from the best not an
organization that is destroying the driving industry by self perpetuating
it's name and selling books and driver's education to everyone. Rather than
trying to
"do it right", teach people the right way to drive, develop a drivers skills
so they are not relying on a crutch,  they would rather certify everyone
even if it meant giving them a crutch like day/night rear-view mirrors.
(People can become
drivers with 0 drives under their belt, and passing one simple test.) If you
drive the right
equipment you don't need a crutch. Rather than teaching students to drive
with a band aid, you should take the time to develop a drivers skills so
they
are not reliant on equipment that hinders their performance. (gear such
Honda Civics, Jeep Wranglers
AMC Hornets, and Ford F-150 Pickups). When teaching a potential driver,
don't
just license some one in 1 test drive and one written test, or give them a
driver's Education course with only 8
drives or even worse give them their license without some *real*
professional driving skills like the one's *I* have under *my* belt. Read
(Insert state of your choice Name here) driver's test pamphlet and tell me
that is a thorough class.
Please. It is so distilled they barely learn anything."



Apply your logic to this fictional conversation Andrew, think about it for
awhile... deeply.  Are you licensed to drive a car Andrew? I hope that this
analogy is not lost on you.

I am a PADI Instructor.  My goal in life is as simple as our fictional
driver's education instructor; I want to prepare entry level divers, to dive
safely within their limits.  I read as much as I can about the subject of
diving, from divers such as yourself.  I care about my students safety as
much as I do about my own children's safety... and I won't certify a single
diver unless I believe that they both know their limits, and can perform
adequately within them.
Am I capable of teaching professional divers?  No.  But I guarantee you I
can teach recreational open water divers to perform the skills necessary to
ensure their survival... something I take extremely seriously.

I don't doubt your knowledge Andrew... I suspect you are much more the
NASCAR driver than I will ever be.  But I'm constantly trying to learn, to
be better at what I do... but I know my place in the diving community:

I am the Driver's Education instructor, and you are the NASCAR driver
certification examiner.  What I think you've forgotten Andrew, is that there
is a differet purpose for each, and they cannot be mixed or confused. 

If you forget this lesson, and feel the need to throw out generalities to
this list, or any other; sit back and think about who taught you how to
drive.


Kindest Regards,

Joe F. West
PADI Instructor MSDT164452







Joe F. West
98TJ Completely Stock, Not an aftermarket part on it.
http://members.home.com/joewest2/
(Okay... so I lied) <grin>


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew [mailto:andrewg@fi*.co*]
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 4:06 PM
To: Einar Hagen; :sherwood@st*.lr*.co*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com
Subject: Re: DUI rock boots and other PADI stuff


Bob this guys name is Einar.

And boy does he snivels.

 So really EINAR, you are trying to be a good diver. Wow, first thing's
first quit the sniveling. Suck it up and learn from the best not an
organization that is destroying the diving industry by self perpetuating
it's name and selling books and C-Cards to everyone. Rather than trying to
"do it right", teach people the right way to dive, develop a divers skills
so they are not relying on a crutch,  they would rather certify everyone
even if it meant giving them a crutch like ankle weights. (People can become
PADI advanced divers with 8 dives under their belt.) If you wear the right
equipment you don't need a crutch. Rather than teaching students to dive
with a band aid, you should take the time to develop a divers skills so they
are not reliant on equipment that hinders their performance. (gear such a
bondage wings and ankle weights). When teaching a potential diver,  don't
just certify some one in 4 ow dives or give them a drysuit course with one
openwater dive or even worse give them their advanced card with 8 dives
under their belts. Read a PADI ow book and tell me that is a thorough class.
Please. It is so distilled they barely learn anything.

The comment I was making was that PADI divers have a way of associating
everything with PADI. Such as a PADI buddy and a PADI advanced Class and a
PADI Ankle Weights. PADI is a marketing outfit that is trying to Brand name
diving the "PADI way". So as I do not know you personally or you're ability
I can not say that you are a good or a bad diver whether or not you are a
PADI instructor or not means a hell a beans different to me.

 I  teach Openwater Class, in fact I taught 9 ow classes in 1999 and certify
divers at every level including all the GUE levels. That doesn't make me
brilliant but it gives a great foundation on which I am make my point. My
point is that PADI is destroying the diving industry by banging students out
as fast as they can so they can sell more PADI c-cards and PADI patches and
their PADI diplomas, all this  at the expense of teaching them to do it
right, the right way from the get go.

How many people do you know out there are now trying to discover and learn
GUE and DIR? Tons.
How many are experienced divers that feel they need more information and a
better standard of training? All.
My point is why bring them in,  teach 'em wrong, then let 'em go out and
discover the right way to do it later.
This sounds S..... well PADI likes it. They get to sell more C-Cards. PADI
please give us a break they are only interested in PADI

Andrew Georgitsis
PDIC Instructor Trainer
SSI Instructor Certifier
GUE Instructor through level 3


----- Original Message -----
From: Einar Hagen <einar.hagen@un*.co*>
To: Bob Sherwood <sherwood@st*.lr*.co*>
Cc: Techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 25, 1999 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: DUI rock boots


>Bob.
>
>So if u dont know people they r no good?
>Andrews comment on Padi instructors (he implied that we were all no good
>divers, incompetents taking advantage of the gullible public) was hurtful
to
>me.
>
>The Padi instructors i know, all teach people to dive to the best of their
>ability,
>and they r doing a fine job. Granted not all of them could do 70 meters for
>20
>minutes, but neither could all the guys on techdiver. I am here to learn
how
>to
>do this right, and I take generalisations about my ability personal, as do
a
>lot of
>the others here. And my name is Einar.......
>
>
>Einar
>
>> Einer
>>   I don't think you know who you are messing with, The fact that I don't
>> even know who you are tells me that you aren't even fit to carry Andrew's
>> stage bottles to the water so BACK OFF
>> Bob Sherwood   607-748-7565.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Einar Hagen <einar.hagen@un*.co*>
>> To: Andrew <andrewg@fi*.co*>
>> Cc: Techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Date: Saturday, December 25, 1999 1:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: DUI rock boots
>>
>>
>> >> See Walter.
>> >>
>> >> 15 PADI instructors don't wear PADI ankle weights on their PADI
>drysuits.
>> >We
>> >> should respect them as good divers.
>> >>
>> >> Andrew
>> >
>> >Fuck you!!!
>> >
>> >The fact that i am a Padi instructor does not make me a bad diver.
>> >
>> >
>> >Einar
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >
>
>
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>

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