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List: This message contains a sincere apology which I owe to all French list members. I am sorry for the long message and the non-technical- diving subject matter. Please delete if it is not relevant to you. Maybe Scott will allow the debate to go back off-line. At 04:12 28/12/99 , ScottBonis@ao*.co* wrote: >I am sending this message to the entire mailing list in an attempt to expose >a level of bigotry that I believe has no place in our society. ------------------------------------------------------- Scott, you have managed to work yourself up into a lather of righteous indignation over an observation of mine that was made in relation to CMAS's apparently lax standards. My comment was intended to contrast the French style of observance of rules and regulations unfavourably with that of the Germans. I realise now that I should have referenced one of Germany�s prior occupations of France by writing "back in 1871", or "back in 1914" instead of "back in 1942", thus denying you an excuse to go purple with rage and label me a Nazi. My 'sin' was in referencing the most recent occupation. Damn! Hung by the dates! I stand by the points made in my reply which you kindly reposted to the list. To claim as my own the memories of the members of my parents� families who were killed or bereaved in the fighting in Europe would be to diminish the poignancy and deny the fidelity of those memories. I can try to share the intensity of those memories but I would never, as you do, claim ownership of them. To do so would be an insult to the original owners. If you are still unable to make the distinction, I will be happy to instruct you off-list. The only people who have a right to be offended by my original comment are the French. To any and all French people on the list, I apologise unreservedly. My remark was far stronger and less humorous than I intended. Scott, it was unfair of me to imply that in teaching cave in Mexico you 'took' a living. I apologise. I am glad to hear of your lavish donation of a pair of stained glass windows. I hope it helps the Maya in their quest for recognition, justice and land rights, forgive me for not quite understanding how. As for your shrill accusation that I am a Nazi (and, therefore, an anti-Semite): You should know that I am having a deal of trouble with this concept. I would like to take deep offence to it, but instead the absurdity of the suggestion cracks me up. rgrdz billyw >On 12/24/99 billy@bd*.co*.au* wrote ><< ....Y'know back in '42, you Europeans should have let the Germans keep >France. >rgrds billyw>> > >On 12/24/99 ScottBonis@ao*.co* wrote: ><<For many years now I have heard of the diving "Cave Nazi's and Techno >Nazi's" but this is the first clear indication I have seen. Who on earth do >you think you are to reserect such memories. You owe one major apology to >every single person on this mailing list who was offended by your remarks. >And that starts with me.>> > >On 12/27/99 billy@bd*.co*.au* wrote ><<Memories? MEMORIES?!? Oh, spare me the wounded psyche act. You weren't even >there. You probably weren't even born. >And if ANYONE has a right to be offended, it's the French, who, showing wit >and insouciance that is clearly lost on you, remarked of the German >occupation "at least the trains ran on time." >Tell you what, Scott - since you take a living out of Yucatan, I suggest >you've got enough to do cleaning up the shit that happens in your back-yard, >without pretending outrage about troubles that happened half a century ago >and half a world away. >rgrdz billyw>> > >It is really an educational experience for me to find that there are actually >individuals such as yourself who are still trying to spread their prejudicial >garbage in our society. I find it almost inconceivable that you are actually >trying to justify your bigoted remarks by attacking me personally. Do you >have any idea of how rediculous you are proving yourself to be? > >But in the spirit of tolerence, I will try to communicate with you as a human >being. > >As it happens, I definately was born during the invasion of France but you're >certainly right in that I was not there. But that does not mean I have no >memories of the time. You see my prior father in law received a PhD. in >chemistry from the University of Vienna in the 1930's before both he and his >wife were forced to leave Austria. And a major portion of my prior wife's >family were murdered in the camps. Do you think we never spoke of her >relatives? So how dare you, yes HOW DARE YOU say that I have no memories. > >Can you possibly be so naive as to believe that the "French" can think of the >German occupation with carefree indifference? You have really got to be >kidding me. No adult with even a modicum of intelligence could even consider >such a widespread French attitude possible let alone believe it to be >prevalent. > >You accuse me of "Taking a living out of the Yucatan". I have to admit that >I don't really know what that means. You probably cannot fathom this, but I >teach technical diving because of my love for diving and for sharing my >experiences, not for the money. Fortunately I have an independent income >that is far in excess of anything I could ever make teaching diving. And you >might be interested to know that in the last month alone I have certified two >foreign full cave students for no pay because another instructor had accepted >them as students and then for family health reasons, had to leave the >country. And presently among my students, I have one Mexican trimix student >and one Mayan full cave student who I am also training for no pay simply >because they have worked hard and couldn't afford it. > >And several years ago my wife and I donated two six foot stained glass >windows to a church in a Mayan indian village outside the city of San >Cristobal de las Casas high in the mountains of Chiapas. And I don't mean we >simply donated money. We designed the windows to be of meaning to the >religion of the village, bought the glass and materials and brought them 1500 >miles down from the US, fabricated and installed the windows and then gave >them as a present to the people of the Chamula village. The only thing I >take out of Mexico is memories of the warm and friendly people with whom I am >surrounded and of the majestic caves. > >A very wise man once said "He who does not learn from the past is bound to >relive it." But according to your reasoning, we are all to believe that we >need not learn anything from events such as Masada, the Inquisition, the >burning of the Maya codices, the Zulu and Mau Mau uprisings, the Alamo, >Wounded Knee, or from the Nazi's. After all, they all happened more than >fifty years ago, so let's forget them. I'm sorry fella, but for me it >doesn't work that way. > >Although I have no reason to believe that you will ever understand what I am >telling you, you need help. You need to join the human race. You need to >learn that we are all one people and are capable of improving our lot. >Tearing down others will never build you up, it will only lead to your >inevitable decay. I pity you. >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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