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I really wasn't talking about taking bones and fossils in the caves, I was talking about changing things. More the damage caused to the caves. Pulling, pushing (pull and glide, is that what its called?) takes it's toll on the caves much like the original lighting of fires in land based caves. Most caves have changed over the past 30 years or so from diving. Prior to that I don't think they changed much. I'm not criticizing here as I like to explore as much as the next guy, just trying to put things into perspective. I also know that most cave divers try as hard as possible to minimize the damage to the caves. As an avid wreck diver I just don't like being criticized for recovering artifacts that should not have been there in the first place. Taking a porthole or hatch plate does little to effect the environment and breeding grounds down there. Raising a hull for scrap is another story. I have a strange feeling that this is going to spark a flame war (the reason I was vague in the first place). Sorry about that! Art. -----Original Message----- From: Drew Glasbrenner [SMTP:glasbrenner@mi*.co*] Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 7:24 AM To: Paltz, Art Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com; cavers@ca*.co* Subject: Re: Hessian Scorecard Art, I couldn't care less about the topic of this thread, but let me make something clear. Cavers, both wet and dry, DO NOT take anything out of the cave. This is a basic tenet of the NSS, and other caving groups worldwide. The formations that nature created over a time span most humans cannot grok do not belong on someone's mantleplace. While this does not change your original argument, it is an important clarification. Drew Glasbrenner -----Original Message----- From: Paltz, Art <Art.Paltz@R2*.CO*> To: Mailing Tech Diver List (E-mail) <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 6:49 AM Subject: RE: Hessian Scorecard >Do you work for the press o something? You've taken this out of context. >My point, which I thought I made clear, was that some people enjoy diving in >caves and others enjoy wreck diving. Some recover artifacts while others >take rock samples. In both cases if left alone no one would learn from >them. > >Give us all a break Peter! We're not talking about appartide (SP?) or >genocide; we're talking about portholes and rock samples.... You're trying >to provoke a fight. I think you need to get out and dive..... > >Art. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Fjelsten [SMTP:fjelsten@ma*.do*.dk*] > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 1:05 PM > To: Paltz, Art > Cc: Mailing Tech Diver List (E-mail) > Subject: RE: Hessian Scorecard > > Den 20:38 10-12-99 skrev Paltz, Art: > >I don't criticize them so they shouldn't criticize me. > > I don't want to get inveolved in this but the statement above is > ridiculous. > > By this token one cannot criticize governments that torture its >citizens - > unless, of course, THEY have criticised you in the past. Come on!? >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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