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Hi George A bit curious here , just as you said below that you have "Done It" , since you guys never admit to an accident , when did you do it , would like details( names and dates , places would be real nice to). Also the accident with Arielle Latulippe on the Skycliff .From some of the private emails I've got about the accident, the story line and details are a bit different.With the most damaging thing being she had about only 45 logged dives , if this is true she was in over her head and those that knew this are part of any blame .Not attacking anyone with this , I just do not like misleading facts or partial facts .If she only had that low number of dives , she should not have been there , then there would have been no accident and no need to be saved , no matter how it was done. JT At 01:14 PM 11/24/99 -0500, kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: >Esat - done it - the exhaust t thing is not true since it takes very >little pressure to inflate the lungs, and the eihter you have to agree >with that or you can't tell me that there is too much pressure from a >reg. Besides, a bright guy like you should be able to operate a reg >after all these years. I've seen you use chopsticks, so don't give me >any bull. > >What comes out of your lungs is not as good as anything out of a reg, >anywhere any time. > >As you also know, these victims tend to crank up right away, and then >they need to go ahead and breathe the demand reg, not some silly bag and >mask. > >Besides, fast action is eveything, supposition and what ifs are for the >losers and the dead. You know, we have tons of witnesses to our events >like this, and if you ever saw us respond to an emeregency, all you >would be saying is "WOW", not trying to find a chink in the armour - our >track record is too good and too long for bullshit. > >Last time I talked to Arielle Latulippe on the phone, she was alive. >Tell her it doesn't work, and that Ray shoud have jerked off like the >rest of you are recomnmending. > >Again, thank God that we do not have to deal with the attitudes out >there, and it is getting really obvious why we do not have the accidents >and everyone else does, and we do all the crazy stuff and nobody else >does anything but die trying to get to first base and then make up a >bunch of excuses. That is called incompetent bullshit and being a >weenie. > >It works, Esat. Done it. > >Esat Atikkan wrote: > > > > I am not sure what the author means by 'in the field', > > but in the field, but out of the water, +ve pressure > > ventilations can B provided using > > > > Mouth to mouth or nose > > Pocket mask, w/ or w/o O2 enrichment, to mouth > > Bag valve mask > > Demand valve used in the +ve pressure mode. > > > > Current practice limits in water ventilations to mouth > > to mouth or mouth to snorkel. Some advocate the use > > of a pocket mask. > > > > The scuba regulator appears impractical for a number > > of reasons - especially since it is relatively > > cumbersome to seal nose while feathering gas delivery > > all w/ one hand w/ 3 finger mitts. I thnk it will B > > cumbersome w/ gloves. > > > > The scuba regulator is alos assailed for its high flow > > rates & high pressure. The latter probably is not as > > great an issue as some make as demand valves have back > > P settings of 60 cm of H2O. Flow rate due to gastric > > insuflation that could ensue becomes an issue, again > > best kept below 40 l/min. > > > > Despite an eloquent treatise recently posted on > > restoring O2 rapidly to restore Hb (no correlation > > :-), Hb is restored through inducing erythropoeitin > > wh/ is induced via hypoxia) & the rapid loss of blood > > O2 below 100 mm Hg (100 mm Hg of what? Not arterial > > pO2 as the Bohr cooperativity curve maintains 80% sat > > of HbO2 @ pO2arter of 40 mm Hg), there is no question > > that rapid restoration of 'fresh air' is imperative. > > However at no time should the dictum - do no further > > damage be forgotten. > > > > Safe bubbles > > > > Esat Atikkan > > > > Safe bubbles > > > > Esat Atikkan > > > > > > > > > >(Quote) > > > > >Only one device allows for the delivering of > > > > artificial ventilation in the > > > > >field. This is the pocket mask with an oxygen > > > inlet > > > > valve. This also allows > > > > >for the use of mouth-to mouth assistance without > > > > the unpleasant (and > > > > >possibly dangerous) aspects of direct oral > > > contact. > > > > Regulators would also > > > > >have difficulty in controlling the inspiratory > > > > volume and can lead to > > > > >overpressure injuries. > > > > >(unquote) > > > > > > > > > >I would like to think that I have provided more > > > > than enough evidence to > > > > >support my case, and that the debate could stop > > > > here. However I have a > > > > >sneaking suspicion that there are some who will > > > > simply choose not to listen > > > > >and will continue to advocate this dangerous and > > > > unproven practice. > > > > > > > > > > I hope you all will think carefully on > > > > this issue, and if you haven't > > > > >already done so get some proper training from DAN > > > > (or similar organisation) > > > > >so that you WILL know what to do if the need > > > > arises. Thanks also to those > > > > >of you who have emailed me privately with your > > > > support. > > > > > > > > > >Safe Diving, David. > > > > > > > > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > >Ocean Internet - "The Quality ISP" > > > > >http://www.ocean.com.au/info.html > > > > > > > > > >-- > > > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in > > > one place. > > > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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