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You keep calling George out as if you have a basis to do so...the guy has you smoked from the get go and you seem to be hammering on stupidity. He has said, he wouldn't DO the dive as you dive it because it's STUPID the way you are doing it. He has stated how he would DO it...just becuase you have done something stupid for 100 times does not make it right. How big is that chip on your shoulder? The comparison on the video and web page is that you have NOTHING to back up your diving style/system whatever you choose to call it, but George sure does have A LOT to back up his methods. Put up your system/methods, and if it is better I'm sure folks would be willing to listen (and so far your setup has been found to be lacking). As it is right now your logic is flawed...better ways of doing the dive have been presented and you still keep asking him to justify YOUR stupidity. But as I stated in my last reply...do your dive anyway you want...nobody cares BV. Sean ----- Original Message ----- From: <bigvon@be*.ne*> To: Sean Cary <smcary@mi*.co*> Cc: Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 5:32 AM Subject: Re: Its about going deep george. > Gee Sean > I was trying to show george on a dive. Can't seen to get through. > Now everyone who dives needs a web page and video? > Bill > > Sean Cary wrote: > > > That is the point that HE has been missing. BV you keep attacking George > > and have no basis to do so. Walk the walk with him for awhile and THEN talk > > the talk on the list. We know what George has done...and have not CLUE what > > you do. > > > > BTW where is _your_ Video(s) and _your_ Web page? Also where is the tech > > training agency that your diving style precipitated...? Til you have either > > stop calling George out, it's getting old. He would smoke your ass in a New > > York second, and deep down you know it. > > > > Do your dives as stupidly as you want, nobody here gives a shit what you do. > > The rest of us will heed his advice and stay safe. You and Dave Sutton > > ought to get together and dive your little brains out. > > > > Sean > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*> > > To: <bigvon@be*.ne*> > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 12:09 AM > > Subject: Re: Its about going deep george. > > > > > Smallvon - On deep dives, why aren't you using a drysuit like the rest of > > > planet? Does your body fat insulate you for any thermal considerations > > > whatsoever? > > > > > > At 08:22 PM 11/17/1999 +0000, you wrote: > > > >George > > > >you STILL do not get it. > > > >Our little discussion centers around your alleged DIR technique in deep > > ocean > > > >dives, nothing less and nothing more. (In spite of your constant > > whining). > > > >I don't care what you can or can't do. > > > >Just show up on a DEEP ocean dive of 25 to 30 min duration in your > > > >eighties and > > > >forties and then we will see who is laughing. > > > >I am sure if a problem develops, I will see your equipment streaming by > > me > > > >as it > > > >sinks to the bottom and I will laugh as I watch you struggle to stay > > level > > > >at your > > > >20' stop with empty tanks. > > > >I on the other hand will calmly orally inflate my spare BC and laugh my > > > >head off > > > >as I float at 20 feet. > > > >By the way I agree with DIR in caves and intermediate ocean. But for deep > > > >dives. > > > >sorry you gotta be safe. > > > >Von > > > > > > > > > > > >kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dan, this guy is desperately hoping that we do not actually dive, for > > > > > some reason. I am so sick of hearing how I do not undersatnd this or > > > > > that or how I do not do this or that. Why do these guys thing we hold > > > > > all the records if we are so incompetent in their minds? > > > > > > > > > > I am also so sick of these guys badmouthing me, attacking me, lying > > > > > about me and then claiming some moral high ground in doing so - this > > is > > > > > the personal preference mindset in action - it is ok for rookies and > > > > > idiots to attack me, but not ok for me to point out dangerous stupidty > > > > > and explain why. > > > > > > > > > > It is somehow worthless for me to put out real life situations and > > > > > solutions and ok for some asshole rookie to "suppose" and "guess" how > > > > > soemthing should be done. Why do these people think the Navy comes and > > > > > studies our techniques to apply in warfare? I can answer that - > > because > > > > > we have the best record for REAL LIFE ACTION. > > > > > > > > > > Somehow I am supposed to be nice since I am some "famous diver" - the > > > > > only diffrence between me and everyone else out there is that I have > > put > > > > > a little extra effort into gathering information, have done what that > > > > > information said to do, have seen the handwriting on the wall and so > > > > > have taken an organization that was passed on to me in the belief that > > I > > > > > could make it fly and turned it into a fixture that has given us long > > > > > term access while others have squandered access for all of you and > > made > > > > > the sport look bad. > > > > > > > > > > Why is it that the WKPP has thousands of man dive hours of long range > > > > > deep mixed gas cave exploration dives without incident and the same > > guys > > > > > can go smoke the Britannic and film inside like it was a swimming pool > > > > > and the rest of the big mouthed strokes out there just can't get that > > > > > job done? > > > > > > > > > > Why are we the ones who put out the films, the websites, the manuals, > > > > > the training organizions tha do not compromise, the stories, articles > > > > > and books on this that have no profit motive and are nothing more than > > > > > an effort to make it better for everyone and give back what was given > > to > > > > > us? > > > > > > > > > > Dan Volker wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bigvon, > > > > > > > > > > > > You are laboring under a few major misconceptions; > > > > > > 1.George does far more ocean dives on deep wrecks and deep reefs > > than he > > > > > > does cave dives. > > > > > > 2. On many of these dives scooters are NOT USED, particularly on our > > deep > > > > > > spearfishing dives. > > > > > > 3. One set of double 80's and one 40 ft stage of 50/50 Nitrox is all > > we > > > > > > would typically need, since we don't share your massive requirement > > > > for huge > > > > > > deco on short 23 to 25 minute dives ( actual bottom time) . > > > > > > 4. If you were to attempt to dive with George and I on the deep > > Jupiter > > > > > > ledge ( 180 to 240), or any other good spearfishing ledge at depths > > > > ranging > > > > > > from 200 to 260, there is no way you would be able to even keep us > > in > > > > sight. > > > > > > We would be swimming easily at hunting pace. You would be gasping > > for > > > > air at > > > > > > emergency speed( for you), and losing ground every minute. After 5 > > to 10 > > > > > > minutes, you and your buddy would no longer have us in view, and to > > add > > > > > > insult to injury, if you attempted this, you would most likely be in > > > > severe > > > > > > danger from an enormous CO2 buildup, even with Trimix. Beyond that, > > your > > > > > > next danger would be having enough gas to make it back to the > > > > surface, since > > > > > > 10 minutes of following us would most likely leave you with less > > than 500 > > > > > > psi in your backgas. For this reason, if we were to allow you to > > make > > > > this > > > > > > futile attempt, we would have to have another WKPP diver > > accompanying you > > > > > > and your buddy by scooter, dragging 3 or 4 stages to cover the > > almost > > > > > > certain OOA scenario you would foolishly fall into. > > > > > > 5. If you want to try swimming dives with us, you better be doing at > > > > > > least > > > > > > 40 miles per day on a bike, and getting your bodyfat down to at > > least > > > > > > "average" levels. This type of training allows George or I to keep > > up > > > > with > > > > > > scooter divers if we desire, using fins and good technique. When > > you can > > > > > > keep up with Gavins or Makos, using just your own power, maybe then > > > > you can > > > > > > attempt to dive with us. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Dan Volker > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: bigvon@be*.ne* [mailto:bigvon@be*.ne*] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:05 AM > > > > > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: He who laughs last, laughs best. > > > > > > > > > > > > kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von, .6 breathing rate - you do not need to be down there - you > > need a > > > > > > > respatory theapist. You has no business even using the word > > "swimming" > > > > > > > in a sentence with my name. I am a Masters swimmer , you moron, > > and > > > > > > > would quit diving if I had a swimming breathing rate of .6 at any > > > > speed. > > > > > > > I am starting to see what the big beef is here - it is YOU - > > explains > > > > > > > the tank size phobia and the deco nonsense all in one. Let m,e > > suggest > > > > > > > yoi buy a pair of running shoes and store them in your mouth when > > you > > > > > > > are not using them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot that you are SUPERMAN, able to hold your breath for 25 > > > > min.so the > > > > > > gas in your > > > > > > tanks is for your buddy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr BIGSHOT what is your swimming and deco rate? That will be a > > laugh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You obviosly do not understand drysuit insulation, and you > > obviously do > > > > > > > not understand decompression, you do not understand simple > > weighting, > > > > > > > and you obviously do not understand anything I said. You obvoiusly > > do > > > > > > > not do these dives. You are talking out of your ass again. Tehr > > aer > > > > > > > several weigths of insulation, and what we sue in the ocean dwon > > > > here is > > > > > > > the C-2, whcih has enough lifrt to hod the tanks, is enough to > > deal > > > > with > > > > > > > cold for a shorrt exposre, and is perfect for deco . In the height > > of > > > > > > > sumer, when the last four feet of water is "87 degrees", this is > > not a > > > > > > > problem since we are mostly in cooler water, and if you were > > really > > > > > > > doing the big bottom times and hangs yoo claim you would find that > > the > > > > > > > dryusuit covers all the teamps quite well, in addition to > > balancing out > > > > > > > the steel tanks if that is what you need to supply your fat ass > > for > > > > > > > these little dives. The fact is that no "overheating" occurs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try it george, you will see. This is not a hole in the ground, its > > > > the OCEAN > > > > > > moron. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also if you were not talking out of your ass and really had any > > > > > > > experience, which you do not, you would know that in the summer > > > > there is > > > > > > > frequently a severe thermals below 150 feet, and this will ruin > > your > > > > > > > dive unless you have come preparred, but then you do not do it > > > > enough to > > > > > > > know that, do you "Big Von"? I do it enough to not waste my time > > > > showing > > > > > > > up with insufficient gear capabilities, not to mention doing dives > > with > > > > > > > an unbalnced rig to offset ignorance, stupidity, and fat > > slobbery - it > > > > > > > just makes it worse, guy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is really apparent to me that you are not capable of > > understanding > > > > > > > anything I am saying, and that you pick up little disjointed bits > > and > > > > > > > pieces from other situations and mix them together , resulting in > > the > > > > > > > slop you twisted out here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is really appalling is that not only do you use tanks that > > have a > > > > > > > huge weight disadvantage while providing little additional gas > > over the > > > > > > > 80's with stage, you obvoiusly cary huge deco tanks as well, yet > > do mot > > > > > > > see the problem with that stupidity in the overall initial > > weighing or > > > > > > > drag profile. You say that this is more effecient than my method > > of > > > > > > > using 40's????????????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are a master of misdirection. Look at my post. I can do that > > dive > > > > safely > > > > > > with Steel > > > > > > back tanks (with a reserve you idiot.) and alum stages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have so little understdning of deco that you really believe > > > > that all > > > > > > > of that gas must be carried - the deco can be done without the > > > > oxygen if > > > > > > > that is necessary, but you do not know that , do you? > > obviously). You > > > > > > > have all these big ideas about doing these big tough guy 12" dick > > dives > > > > > > > that you think will impress everyone, yet you have not the tiniest > > > > > > > undersanding of dive logisitcs and boat logistics, or safety. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You obviously do not believe in contingency planning. > > > > > > Leave out the oxygen and watch what happens to your time in water > > > > and gas > > > > > > requirements. > > > > > > This is the dumbest thing you have put out on this list. > > > > > > > > > > > > > No wonder the New England wreck divers make fun of Florida > > divers - all > > > > > > > they see is strokes like you yapping about crap like the Ozark > > that > > > > > > > every bozo in the State has been out to show his manhood on like > > the > > > > > > > Wilkesbarre in Key West or the bullshit in Pompano. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell you what tough guy. Mix your eighties and forties and we will > > > > meet for > > > > > > a dive on > > > > > > the Ozark. 25 to 30 min bottom time. When the dive is over we will > > > > see who > > > > > > has a > > > > > > sufficient reserve for safety. The loser pays the charter fee. > > > > > > > > > > > > Von > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bigvon@be*.ne* wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > George you STILL did not answer my question. Therefore I will > > > > clarify it > > > > > > for you: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > k > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > >-- > > > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*> > > > > > > NW Labor Systems, Inc > > > http://www.nwls.com > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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