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From: "Simon Murray" <simonm@ho*.co*.za*>
To: <bigvon@be*.ne*>
Cc: "Tech Diver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Subject: Re: Its about going deep george.
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 08:45:00 +0200
Von,

Since you are such a hot-shot DEEP ocean diver, why dont you share your
insights on something of interest like in water recompression ?  Otherwise
stop wasting everybody's time with your drivel.

Simon

----- Original Message -----
From: <bigvon@be*.ne*>
To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:22 PM
Subject: Its about going deep george.


> George
> you STILL do not get it.
> Our little discussion centers around your alleged DIR  technique in deep
ocean
> dives, nothing less and nothing more. (In spite of your constant whining).
> I don't care what you can or can't do.
> Just show up on a DEEP ocean dive of 25 to 30 min duration in your
eighties and
> forties and then we will see who is laughing.
> I am sure if a problem develops, I will see your equipment streaming by me
as it
> sinks to the bottom and I will laugh as I watch you struggle to stay level
at your
> 20' stop with empty tanks.
> I on the other hand will calmly orally inflate my spare BC and laugh my
head off
> as I float at 20 feet.
> By the way I agree with DIR in caves and intermediate ocean. But for deep
dives.
> sorry you gotta be safe.
> Von
>
>
> kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:
>
> > Dan, this guy is desperately hoping that we do not actually dive, for
> > some reason. I am so sick of hearing how I do not undersatnd this or
> > that or how I do not do this or that. Why do these guys thing we hold
> > all the records if we are so incompetent in their minds?
> >
> > I am also so sick of these guys badmouthing me, attacking me, lying
> > about me and then claiming some moral high ground in doing so - this is
> > the personal preference mindset in action - it is ok for rookies and
> > idiots to attack me, but not ok for me to point out dangerous stupidty
> > and explain why.
> >
> > It is somehow worthless for me to put out real life situations and
> > solutions and ok for some asshole rookie to "suppose" and "guess" how
> > soemthing should be done. Why do these people think the Navy comes and
> > studies our techniques to apply in warfare? I can answer that - because
> > we have the best record for REAL LIFE ACTION.
> >
> > Somehow I am supposed to be nice since I am some "famous diver" - the
> > only diffrence between me and everyone else out there is that I have put
> > a little extra effort into gathering information, have done what that
> > information said to do, have seen the handwriting on the wall and so
> > have taken an organization that was passed on to me in the belief that I
> > could make it fly and turned it into a fixture that has given us long
> > term access while others have squandered access for all of you and made
> > the sport look bad.
> >
> > Why is it that the WKPP has thousands of man dive hours of long range
> > deep mixed gas cave exploration dives without incident and the same guys
> > can go smoke the Britannic and film inside like it was a swimming pool
> > and the rest of the big mouthed strokes out there just can't get that
> > job done?
> >
> > Why are we the ones who put out the films, the websites, the manuals,
> > the training organizions tha do not compromise, the stories, articles
> > and books on this that have no profit motive and are nothing more than
> > an effort to make it better for everyone and give back what was given to
> > us?
> >
> > Dan Volker wrote:
> > >
> > > Bigvon,
> > >
> > > You are laboring under a few major misconceptions;
> > > 1.George does far more ocean dives on deep wrecks and deep reefs than
he
> > > does cave dives.
> > > 2. On many of these dives scooters are NOT USED, particularly on our
deep
> > > spearfishing dives.
> > > 3. One set of double 80's and one 40 ft stage of 50/50 Nitrox is all
we
> > > would typically need, since we don't share your massive requirement
for huge
> > > deco on short 23 to 25 minute dives ( actual bottom time) .
> > > 4. If you were to attempt to dive with George and I on the deep
Jupiter
> > > ledge ( 180 to 240), or any other good spearfishing ledge at depths
ranging
> > > from 200 to 260, there is no way you would be able to even keep us in
sight.
> > > We would be swimming easily at hunting pace. You would be gasping for
air at
> > > emergency speed( for you), and losing ground every minute. After 5 to
10
> > > minutes, you and your buddy would no longer have us in view, and to
add
> > > insult to injury, if you attempted this, you would most likely be in
severe
> > > danger from an enormous CO2 buildup, even with Trimix. Beyond that,
your
> > > next danger would be having enough gas to make it back to the surface,
since
> > > 10 minutes of following us would most likely leave you with less than
500
> > > psi in your backgas. For this reason, if we were to allow you to make
this
> > > futile attempt, we would have to have another WKPP diver accompanying
you
> > > and your buddy by scooter, dragging  3 or 4 stages to cover the almost
> > > certain OOA scenario you would foolishly fall into.
> > > 5. If you want to try swimming dives with us, you better be doing at
least
> > > 40 miles per day on a bike, and getting your bodyfat down to at least
> > > "average" levels. This type of training allows George or I to keep up
with
> > > scooter divers if we desire, using fins and good technique.  When you
can
> > > keep up with Gavins or Makos, using just your own power, maybe then
you can
> > > attempt to dive with us.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dan Volker
> > >
> > >  -----Original Message-----
> > > From:   bigvon@be*.ne* [mailto:bigvon@be*.ne*]
> > > Sent:   Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:05 AM
> > > To:     techdiver@aquanaut.com
> > > Subject:        Re: He who laughs last, laughs best.
> > >
> > > kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:
> > >
> > > > Von, .6 breathing rate - you do not need to be down there - you need
a
> > > > respatory theapist. You has no business even using the word
"swimming"
> > > > in a sentence with my name. I am a Masters swimmer , you moron, and
> > > > would quit diving if I had a swimming breathing rate of .6 at any
speed.
> > > > I am starting to see what the big beef is here - it is YOU -
explains
> > > > the tank size phobia and the deco nonsense all in one. Let m,e
suggest
> > > > yoi buy a pair of running shoes and store them in your mouth when
you
> > > > are not using them.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I forgot that you are SUPERMAN, able to hold your breath for 25 min.so
the
> > > gas in your
> > > tanks is for your buddy.
> > >
> > > Mr BIGSHOT what is your swimming and deco rate? That will be a laugh.
> > >
> > > > You obviosly do not understand drysuit insulation, and you obviously
do
> > > > not understand decompression, you do not understand simple
weighting,
> > > > and you obviously do not understand anything I said. You obvoiusly
do
> > > > not do these dives. You are talking out of your ass again. Tehr aer
> > > > several weigths of insulation, and what we sue in the ocean dwon
here is
> > > > the C-2, whcih has enough lifrt to hod the tanks, is enough to deal
with
> > > > cold for a shorrt exposre, and is perfect for deco . In the height
of
> > > > sumer, when the last four feet of water is "87 degrees", this is not
a
> > > > problem since we are mostly in cooler water, and if you were really
> > > > doing the big bottom times and hangs yoo claim you would find that
the
> > > > dryusuit covers all the teamps quite well, in addition to balancing
out
> > > > the steel tanks if that is what you need to supply your fat ass for
> > > > these little dives. The fact is that no "overheating" occurs.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Try it george, you will see. This is not a hole in the ground, its the
OCEAN
> > > moron.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Also if you were not talking out of your ass and really had any
> > > > experience, which you do not, you would know that in the summer
there is
> > > > frequently a severe thermals below 150 feet, and this will ruin your
> > > > dive unless you have come preparred, but then you do not do it
enough to
> > > > know that, do you "Big Von"? I do it enough to not waste my time
showing
> > > > up with insufficient gear capabilities, not to mention doing dives
with
> > > > an unbalnced rig to offset ignorance, stupidity, and fat slobbery -
it
> > > > just makes it worse, guy.
> > > >
> > > > It is really apparent to me that you are not capable of
understanding
> > > > anything I am saying, and that you pick up little disjointed bits
and
> > > > pieces from other situations and mix them together , resulting in
the
> > > > slop you twisted out here.
> > > >
> > > > What is really appalling is that not only do you use tanks that have
a
> > > > huge weight disadvantage while providing little additional gas over
the
> > > > 80's with stage, you obvoiusly cary huge deco tanks as well, yet do
mot
> > > > see the problem with that stupidity in the overall initial weighing
or
> > > > drag profile. You say that this is more effecient than my method of
> > > > using 40's?????????????
> > > >
> > >
> > > You are a master of misdirection. Look at my post. I can do that dive
safely
> > > with Steel
> > > back tanks (with a reserve you idiot.) and alum stages.
> > >
> > > > You have so little understdning of deco that you really believe that
all
> > > > of that gas must be carried - the deco can be done without the
oxygen if
> > > > that is necessary, but you do not know that , do you? ( obviously).
You
> > > > have all these big ideas about doing these big tough guy 12" dick
dives
> > > > that you think will impress everyone, yet you have not the tiniest
> > > > undersanding of dive logisitcs and boat logistics, or safety.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You obviously do not believe in contingency planning.
> > > Leave  out the oxygen and watch what happens to your time in water and
gas
> > > requirements.
> > > This is the dumbest thing  you have put out on this list.
> > >
> > > > No wonder the New England wreck divers make fun of Florida divers -
all
> > > > they see is strokes like you yapping about crap like the Ozark that
> > > > every bozo in the State has been out to show his manhood on like the
> > > > Wilkesbarre in Key West or the bullshit in Pompano.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Tell you what tough guy. Mix your eighties and forties and we will
meet for
> > > a dive on
> > > the Ozark.  25 to 30 min bottom time. When the dive is over we will
see who
> > > has a
> > > sufficient reserve for safety. The loser pays the charter fee.
> > >
> > > Von
> > >
> > > > Bigvon@be*.ne* wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > George you STILL did not answer my question. Therefore I will
clarify it
> > > for you:
> > > > >
> > > > > k
> > >
> > > --
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> > >
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>
> --
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