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George you STILL did not answer my question. Therefore I will clarify it for you: kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > I have done it with double 80's and wetsuit, with 40 cu deco bottles, > but then I did not stay 30 minutes at 350 because the deco would be more > than makes any sense in the Gulfstream for reasons already discussed on > here. So at least you admit this much. > Yes I have had situations where the dive got carried away and I > paid the price of having to do a long deco, but in those cases there was > no current, and we were straight up and down with no weather or shipping > problems - in other wors, we got lucky and we did not do ikt again. Most > of the time, this is not too smart, and I would not plan it that way. > This is to be avoided. > I agree. Proper planning, including contingencies is a must. > > I seriously doubt a slob like you did 350 for 30 - I am sure you think > you did after telling yourself that, but I really doubt it. 30 minutes > to me means I get to the bottom and start counting that 30 minutes , > and then stop counting when I leave the bottom - you probably start the > count at the surface and continue back to the first deco stop. Actually I count it from twenty feet down, to the time I leave the bottom. And yes George we do these dives regularly every summer in the Gulf. > Well, at > 60 fpm decent, and 33 fpm ascent, there is a quick 12 minutes of nothing > that you call "bottom time". I call that an 18 minute bottom time . I > really doubt a stroke like you could do even 5 minutes at "350" with > anything but a CCR. I dive long dives at 300 on O/C and know exactly > what the gas consumption and deco requirements are, you do not. I burn a > stage at 300 for longer than any bottom time you ever did in your life > at that depth, and I will guarantee that. I have done at least 3 times > as many deep wreck dives as any kind of cave dive, and I know that game > cold. You do not, and your "shark attack" "350 for 30" attempts at > impressing us spell that out quite clearly - a wannabe with an attitude. > > I have never used my scooter for dives this deep in the ocean - I do not > want to risk it. JJ has with his, but then he had more ground to cover > and he knows the guy who makes them if they break. You can criticize my > scooter diving when you have ANY CLUE what you are talking about, or > when you can swim with me, Bill - that is a sure Macy's window bet - a > 100% for sure. > I do not use a scooter at these depths either since I am diving wrecks looking for artifacts. Plus it's not too good for the scooter. I did not criticize you scooter ability, just wanted to know if you ever SWIM anymore. > > I did find out it was cold(er) at that depth ( anything beyond 150 > really), so most every other time I did it, I used the drysuit and I > still used the 40's. I have done it with both 104's and with 80's - > there was no change in any of the configuration other than that I > inflated the suit with a smaller bottle and it was on my hip, not my > tanks, and my pressure guage had a larger clip on it thah my cave rig > does, as do my ocean deco bottles for when I need the gloves. > > With many of the 80's dives, I also used an 80 stage of bottom gas. The > aluminum 40's were on my hip, and the oxygen was either brought down to > me when I got to 20 feet, or I used an aluminum 30 taken with me , also > on the hip. > If someone has to bring you a bottle, you have now compromised your safety in the event you get off the wreck. A single al 30 is not enough gas. See below > > What an idiot like you can not get through his thick head is that the > rig NEEDS TO BE BALANCED. That means that the tanks need to be offset in > such a manner that you can get up WIOTHOUT THE BC AT ALL, as in hose > failure, gas failure, reg failure, bc failure, etc., and only the worst > idiot would use double bc's that introduce a whole new set of ridiculous > convolution and potential problems, not to mention bungees or restricted > wings, when such a simple solution exists and makes more sense. Bull. I never said I use bungie wings. This is your attempt to confuse the facts. Back to back Halcyon make sense for redundancy. > You > can't see the whole picture , Bill, but you sure have a huge mouth that > keeps on yapping anyway with how to fix self-imposed problems with more > problems. With a shell suit and insulation, steel will work that way by > dropping the light - leaving you with only a small negative amount to > compensate for, and at the depth you are talking, that means a very > small if any amount since that means heavy trimix - much lighter than > air. Yes you do need a light, Bill, and somebody else can tell you all > the reasons why tha never crossed your little stroke mind. > Poor George. You had better start making some long hangs in tropical waters with a dry suit to see how off base you are. If you don't mind sweating and possibly becoming dehydrated, keep using your technique. > With a wetsuit, steel tanks are just plain stupid, like everything else > you say on here. Aluminum 80's with one aluminum 80 stage are like > having 104's gaswise, and yet represent no risk in the weight category. > A smarter choice. You do not need 80 deco bottles unless you have > emphasema and then you should not be diving, and if your gas consumption > at deco is THIS bad, you do not need to be at 350, and certainly could > not stay there lonmg enough to need to big deco bottles in the first > place - a mutually exclusive bullshit argumenmt on your part one more > time, and no, you do not need any "redundent " deco gas because all of > your gases will work despite the old wives tales to the contrary and the > safety crew on the boat will be checking you at some point and bring > down any extra needed gas, unless of course you do not have one, and > then you will have to hope your buddies are not slobs and hoovers and > that they have a little extra to pass on to you, which is usually the > case, or that you even have buddies at all. > OK George put up or shut up. I will run your dive of 300 feet for 25 min. Parameters: PPO2 1.4 END 120' MIX 14/50 Breathing rate: ( .6 on swimming portion) and (.4 on deco.) Unless you are george who can assimilate O2 through the water. Run this on any program. I will use DECOM because you have mentioned this one in the past. Will deco on EAN 32, and O2, since I do not have George's super duper super secret deco info. RESULTS: Bottom mix required........168 cu ft. Nitrox required..........88 cu ft. O2 required...............42 cu ft. So let's see. (Keep in mind these are NO RESERVE numbers because George will rely on the boat to bring him more gas) What about your buddy? You will breath your back twin aluminum 80's dry. Switch to one of your two 40 al. and breathe them both dry. Then grab a 40 of O2 from a passing deckhand and breathe it dry. Then its time to come up. Now that's DIR! I know that's not what you would do...... You would not use your back gas because that's your safety. You would carry two al 80 stages of bottom gas, two al 40 of nitrox and one 40 of high pressure oxygen. Then you would swim around like a bloated porcupine fish for 25 minutes. Wouldn't it be much easier AND safer to only use back tanks for sufficient bottom gas, and only carry two stages? Now that's DIR. All you need is a second wing flipped around sandwiched on your harness. Out of the way and totally redundant. > > In fact the last time I did a really deep wreck dive at 430 feet, one of > the geniuses on the boat clipped one of his deco bottles off to the > buoyed line I was pulling on the way down, and it boogied. I had to > share with him until the divemaster got down to us. > > Wetsuits compress to paper at depth and provide no thermal protection or > lift, and if you really did anything but yap , you would know this. I do know that I am in 74 to 76 degree water for 25 min. Then I spend the rest of deco in a warm or even hot 86 to 88 degree water. For safety I would not want to get overheated. > On > air, you would not notice because you would be stoned to the bone and > loving it. > > Look, idiot - nothing you say makes any sense, you are dangerous in my > opinion both in substance and attitude, and you are wasting everyone's > time - the whole list understands these concepts, and you do not, and > you never will. Try Rec scuba where "350 for 30" and "shark attacks" > will make you a big shot, or buy a CCR and go on that list. Here you are > a laughing stock to ther real world, and a petty little restentful > stroke, like os many othes "big timers" who get no respect because they > have earned disrespect with their own stupidity and have put it in > writing, like you have, one more time. Quit whining George and grown up. Best wishes, Von > > > bigvon@be*.ne* wrote: > > > > If you want to discuss my posts then at least answer the question I posted to you and you refused to > > answer, tough guy. > > > > Tell me your configuration for a warm water (non-dry suit) open ocean dive to 350' for 25-30 min. > > without a scooter. > > Of course you will do it with your double aluminum's and five stages because you do not use steels > > in the ocean. I want to see you swim with THAT configuration. Oh I forgot, you have stated that you > > do not make long deco ocean dives....wonder why?.....? > > Or are you so addicted to scooters that you can't make this dive? > > This is an instance when steels are the logical choice for capacity and redundant BC's are the > > logical safety choice. > > Get a life George. > > Von > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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