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Chief, You almost sound like you know what you are talking about. The unfortunate thing is that too many of of know better. Rich kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > The "willies" is bullshit - reality it what is scary, and helium gives > you just that - too much reality. Anyone who is doing ridiculous diving > or chamber experiments SHOULD be concerned - very concerned. > Anesthesizing them with nitrogen is not the answer. > > Helium and heliox require shorter , not longer decompressions. What the > real story is that the "air" tables are all wrong, and should be longer > than trimix ( all things being equal ) and in fact air should require > the deeper stops that helium seems to ask for in the current "models" in > use. The misconcpetion is then that high helium needs more deco. The > more I have, the less I do. > > We use none of this, and have better success than anyone with > decompression, especially me and Bill Mee who do the experimenting in > the WKPP with the acclerated tables. I am getting my other knee done > soon, and MRI'd and xrayed on Monday - we will see if I still have ZERO > bone damage, as on my last scan two years ago. Since I just did an Iron > Man triathelon last weekend, I would say my physical condition at 48 is > unimpaired by my extreme diving, wouldn't you, and I do not do one > second more of deco than is absolutely mandatory - it is just not > necesasry. > > Ask our deco geeks what they have obvserved with me, Mee, Trout, Rose, > JJ, Werner etc. for confirmation of this, and this is born out by > doppler and blood tests, not supposition and bullshit. > > As for Jablonski's choice of gas for the Britannic or any other dive, it > is a function of the availability of a booster pump only. I have no > pump, I dive 65-70 helium and reduced total pressures. JJ has a pump > here in the States and dives 90/10 in the cave, and has helium in all of > his deco gases other than the oxygen, obviously. Since the general > issues of liability out there falsely believe that more deco is better, > everyone in diving tends to hesitate to recommmend real life deco like > what we do. I suffer from no such constraints. > > If we could get helium to everyone at the high pressures, or if boosters > were available to everyone, we would REQUIRE heliox for everything. > Right now we just have a maximum "nitrogen equivalent depth" of 100 feet > which is doable by everyone, and we mix for the deepest possible depth > to be hit, not the average profile. This generally gives us a more > workable "AED", but we know full well that heliox is on our wish list > for the future when all the qas companies either have the HP supply > tanks, or dive shops get boosters, or we figure out some other > arangement that works for everyone. > > The CCR guys have no excuse for their turtle bone throwing guesswork > other than ignorance and self-induced bullshit for using anything but > heliox. Even Bill Stone knows that much and had his "divers" all using > it at Wakulla. This may make it look bad since they got nothing done > that we did not do on O/C and trimix, and actually took well over a > month to get past what Exley put in on air, but that is a diffrent story > and not a good example. The real story is that most of these CCR guys > are weenies, and could not dive with any equipment including > surface-supplied and boots. I have yet to see ANY of them do ANY dive > that any WKPP diver could not do more effectively and faster on open > circuit, including every dive done at Wakulla by the usdct. The CCR > crowd on the "rebreather list" is not doing anything that could not be > done on a single 80 in a bathing suit, in my opinion, and their > decompresions are absurdly unsuccessful. Their chief savant, Rich > "Wheelchair" Pyle, gets paralyzed on dives that worul not earn him a > PADI O/W one certification, and they have a collection of Jerry Lewis > Telethonites over there that need commercial fishing vessels to get them > out of the water, and they are dispensing the "willie" and "deco" advice > like they know something - they do not. > > Scott, it is real simple: 1) you need to be as clear as possible when > diving - heliox gets that done, 2) you need a fast gas that does no > damage of its own ( as nitrogen does ) and is actually inert - that is > helium, and 3) you need to have no preconditions ) inluding excess > adipose tissue ), you need good vacularization and perfusion ( i.e. good > genetics), you need to be in good cardiovascular condition, and you need > to be free of any injury or damage prior to diving, and you need to have > no pulmonary reactions to these stresses, no blockage or swelling of any > gas spaces, and you need to be armed with real information, not drooling > bullshit like this "helium willes" nonsense. Only a goober like Richie > Pyle would even say something like this. Where is that dope, anyway? I > told him to stay out of K mart with that Cis Lunar. Now there is a guy > who give me the "willies", and without any helium. > > Scott wrote: > > > > List, > > > > After talking with some of the RB nuts, I was asking them to explain > > why they use trimix for diluent, instead of simple heliox. > > The answer was to help reduce the "helium willies" or a nervous > > feeling believed to be caused by lack of any nitrogen at all in the > > breathing mix. Apparently, we are all a little narked at 1 atm, and > > that level of narcosis is what we are used to operating under. > > > > Talking to the boss, who spent many hours in chambers living in heliox > > atmosphere's, he said: > > > > "You always had the feeling that something was wrong, or was going to > > go wrong, that you had no business being here, and that your body > > wasn't ever meant to be under this kind of pressure, which is all > > true! We would have really weird dreams while sleeping, and your mind > > would just run away with different idea's and thoughts." > > > > We watched Andrew G's presentation on the GUE trip to the Britannic > > last week. Thanks for sharing Andrew! (he had to holler over an NFL > > game in the next room). He stated that the bottom mix for this dive > > was 10/70. > > > > Was the nitrogen allowed in the mix to attenuate "helium willies" or > > to help with deco, or some other reason I am not yet hip to? > > > > The Navy uses air or heliox, no trimix what so ever. Why the double > > standard? > > > > I know from running different dives on tables and on ZPlan, that deco > > can be drastically reduced by using trimix vs. heliox for most dives > > of less than 2 hours duration. > > > > So, what's the deal? Why does helium, which is a smaller, lighter and > > "friendlier" molecule cause increased deco obligations on shorter than > > two hour dives? > > > > Scott > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. Richard L. Pyle Ichthyoplogy, Bishop Museum 1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817 Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252 email: deepreef@bi*.or* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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