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George You are clearly wrong on this issue, but I am sure as the consummate "tough guy" it does not make any difference to you. If you had caused further injury or even death as a result of your tough guy CPR, I am sure HE or his family would have seen it differently. Get proper training and shut (as you so politely say) your alligator mouth. Just because you successfully participated in a rescue and got away with it does not make it right. Just like a successful deep air dive to 220' does not make deep air right. Now be a good boy and apologize to Karen. Von kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > "Von", you tell that to the guy we pulled , and I am sure he will see it > differently. "Criminal Ignorance" in my opinion is the crap you have > recommended on here, and I will be glad to dig it up and replay it to > show just how out of line, out of your league, and just plain ignorant > you really are - any time you want a rematch. Take your personal petty > crap up with me in person, and spare everyone else the bullshit. You > know where to find me. > > bigvon@be*.ne* wrote: > > > > Karen > > As an attorney I can say your posts are right on the money. Everyone on the list > > should reread your thread. In this case Irvine is way out of his league. He should > > stick with what he knows and quit giving advice that borders on criminal ignorance. > > > > Bill > > > > Karen Nakamura wrote: > > > > > Adri - > > > > > > Ironically, people who don't know anything are the most protected by the > > > Good Samaritan Law (which is what this part of the thread is about). If you > > > make a reasonable effort and you haven't been taught any better, then there > > > isn't really anything they can sue you on. > > > > > > If you've received some training and know what's protocol and what's not, > > > then doing stuff outside of protocol leaves you wide open. > > > > > > People in professional positions are the most open to a suit: DMs, > > > instructors, guides, etc. That's why almost all agencies require them to > > > have insurance. But there's two sides to the insurance -- having insurance > > > also makes it more likely that you'll actually get sued. Which is most > > > tempting to a lawyer: > > > > > > * Dive company with lots of insurance > > > * Dive shop with insurance > > > * Instructor with insurance > > > * Boat captain with minimal insurance and a nice boat > > > * Dive buddy who lives out of an old VW bus > > > > > > Unfortunately, when someone dies in the U.S., the family (encouraged by the > > > lawyers and by society) wants to blame someone and see retribution done. > > > The laws (they vary from state to state) are designed to protect innocent > > > citizens in the situation you're talking about: they come across a > > > life-or-death situation, should they help or not? So you're covered. > > > > > > This has nothing to do with diving, so the thread should die. This is the > > > same principles that apply for any situation: hiking, gliding, climbing, > > > etc. Do the best that you can with what you have and within the scope of > > > common sense. > > > > > > If someone's already dead (not breathing), it's hard to kill them any more > > > (so try what you can), but while we're in "dry dock", at least think about > > > what options you might have. That way, you won't be stuck in a situation > > > where you see an O2 deco reg and are tempted to intubate someone with it, > > > you'll have thought out the best thing to do and use the equipment to its > > > best. > > > > > > Karen > > > > > > ps. it's really sad that we can't have a civil, coherent discussion about > > > this. obviously, some methods will work (some of the time) but they > > > shouldn't be presented as the *best* method when clearly superior > > > alternatives exist. i won't defend my own stupid mistakes and lucky breaks > > > with anything but an admission that they were stupid mistakes and lucky > > > breaks. i think i learnt a bit more about human psychology than i really > > > wanted to. > > > > > > At 11:09 AM +0100 11/12/99, <Adriaan_Haine@ce*.be*> wrote: > > > > Karen, > > > > > > > > If I understand you correctly: > > > > > > > > if I am not qualified as a rescue diver, I should just leave the victim alone > > > > and watch him or her die? Because otherwise if she or he dies, I might be > > > >sued > > > > because I tried to save a life and failed doing so? > > > > Is it not better to have tried and failed then to not even try? > > > > > > > > confused, > > > > > > > > > > > > Adri Haine > > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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