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Greg, now you are going to have to back this up. Repeating bullshit won't cut it. You need to bring on the facts when you make accusations like this. The problem I have with you is that you know absolutely nothing yet continiue to make recommendations of gear to people on here that are not only sub optimal, they are outright wrong . 12 or 16 cave dives ? I appologize for "shorting" you four dives - my mistake. You do not need to be dispensing advice about cave diving. Again, you need to substantiate the accusation against me. As for the deco gas, I shut it off on the whole crew of weenies because Tom Mount was yelling for us to come get him and waving his fins and that means trouble, so I cut the assholes off and made the boat go pick him up. These strokes did not need to be decompressing this long, and in fact admitted to merely trying to "clear their computers". We told them we had trouble, and we told them we were cutting them loose and to get on board or stay on a buoy. This demontrates the problem of a fixed boat and surface supplied deco gas. Mount even got pissed at them and gave them all tables to use instead of the computer for future dives. It is amazing the lengths you resentful little pricks will go to to come up with sojething you beiove to be a "mark" on me. The fact is Kuiper, I have an extensive track record that speask for itself. So far, Kuiper, when I wnat to go diving, I go wih the pros, not the known strokes, and the pros have no problem with me at all. It is a moot point whether the idiots would have me on their boats since there is no reason I would be there in the first place. The real story is that I get invited to dive eveywhere, speak everywhere, and participate everywhere all over the World, and it is just too bad I have too much going on to accomodate most of it. I did not even get to dive with Hank and Janet this year. Ask the Mouth - I doubnt he is the one who told yo about this, and I am sure it is not the guy who I pulled the gas from since no only did he run out of gas on me on another dive at the freaking bottom, he climbed over Joe Citteli in Little River and left him silted out at the back of the cave. Ken Sallot had to go all the way back to the end and get him . Any time you or anyone else wants to pretend I ever was involved in any clusterfuck you better A) have some facts, and B) get ready for my love of blowing the whistle on idiots with extreme prejudice - go ahead and give me a try on this one. Kuiper, Greg wrote: > > George Irvine, > > Once again you prove to the list that you are a liar. What motivates > you to make statements about people that are outright lies? Is it > some Machiavellian tactic that you learned when you were younger? Now > you claim to list that I have had only 12 cave dives. The week I dove > in Akumal this year I had over 16 dives. Call it whatever you like, > the Yucatan still has some of the most beautifull caves I have ever > seen. I had my first cave dives there in 1978, some three years or so > before you were cavern certified according to one of your friends. > > Now you claim to be doing research on me. How about the times you > have bugged out on your dive buddies when the going got tough, how > about the time that you shut off the deco gas on a bunch of boat > divers? How many dive boats won't let you on board George? > > Stop your crying. I have never once claimed to be a cave diving > expert nor do I claim to be a diving expert of any kind. I give > opinions based on 21 years of diving. My first cave dives were in > 1978 in virgin cave, my first ocean dives were in 1978 and my first > wreck dives were in 1978. Since then I have amassed much more than > the 12 resort cave dives that you claim. You have proven to the list > many time that you are a bonafide liar. Please do us all a favor and > stick with the advice giving. This Howard Stern shtick that you honor > us with is both tiring and boring. It may be fun to listen to on the > radio, but reading it day after day is a pain in the ass. > > Your advice is invaluable, you as a person are despicable (per your > email persona). > > As far as the USCDT I would be honored if they invited me to dive with > them on anything but a closed circuit rebreather. As far as them > competing with you on distance, I was not aware that was there goal > during Wakulla2 from all of the articles I have read. Are you trying > to goad them into attempting such a feat? > > There are many divers in California that are great cave divers, it > just costs them a little more money and time to get to the caves than > you Floridians. The only oxymoron on the list is you minus the oxy. > > Greg Kuiper > > -----Original Message----- > From: kirvine@sa*.ne* [mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*] > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 1999 10:03 AM > To: Kuiper, Greg > Cc: 'techdiver@aquanaut.com' > Subject: Re: Madison blue fatatlities > > Greg, "California cave diver" is also an oxymoron. With your 12 resort > > course cave dives under your belt, you certainly make a good "expert". > > In fact, you should have been diving with the "usdct" - you could have > > fixed all of those broken lines for them and maybe they would have > been > able to get someplace and would not have missed 25,000 feet of cave, > not > to mention missing the end of the line by two miles. > > How about a little sympathy for me and the WKPP - just think, you > stroke, there was NO LINE in the cave where we went, and let me tell > you > I sure was pissed when I had to put 50 some odd thousand feet in there > > just to dive. I am still pissed about that, and just between you and > me, > I blame it all on the "usdct" - they cost me about $2000 in cave line. > > Kuiper, Greg wrote: > > > > List, > > The recent fatatlities at Madison Blue have made me reflect on cave > > and wreck situations I have been in where if the line had broken I > > would have had similar problems. How many of you have gone through > > tight restrictions in tanninc or fine clay/limestone silt where you > > couldn't see jack squat? I know I have and what a pain it the ass > it > > would be to all of a sudden run out of line on the exiting portion > of > > a cave dive. I was taught to take my safety reel, tie off to the > end > > of the line and go in search of the other end. I can think of many > > spots I have been in where that could be almost impossible due to > > current blowing the line downstream or multiple possible routes > > through a zero visiblity area. It is also a pain in the ass to find > > > broken cave line amongst stalagmites in a zero vis environment. > > > > Cave line is tough, but after reading about the recent unfortunate > > accident at Madison Blue and all the broken cave line that USCDT > found > > in Wakulla it makes me realize that it might be smart to run your > own > > line through certain areas where a broken line could mean life or > > death. > > > > I don't mean every single tight place where there could be zero > > visibility, but in those areas where there could be multiple paths > and > > only one leads to the exit. > > > > An anology that springs to mind is from when I used to rock climb. > > Most American climbers use one thick rope for their climb where many > > > of the European climbers I used to know would use two ropes at a > time > > for their ascent in case one failed. > > > > In a life threatening environment like caves I don't think it would > be > > a bad idea to run a separate line on top of the already existing > cave > > line in the appropriate places. The divers at Madison blue might be > > > alive today if they had tried that. > > > > Dive safe everybody, > > Greg Kuiper -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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