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Don, to do this experiment you would not need to go anywhere near 150 feet - more like 50 feet. The fact that you even say this indicates that A) you think I am compeltely full of shit, and B) you really have it imprinted into your mind that diving on air is a normal thing. It is not. To put ANYONE in a chamber to 150 feet is so stupid and so irresponsible as to be criminal, and there is no university on this planet that will allow such bullshit. You would have to spend a fortune in PFO testing and other screening, and then you would have to have some serious insurance, and some big money to pay for the physicians , nurses and other professionals required for this activity. Ask about the chamber nurse who dropped dead from her PFO after a table 6 in Tallahassee. Again, once more time - what the hell is wrong with the obvious? What is wrong with the reams of information out there that already has impicated air in every problem in diving? What I am really hoping to see is the lawsuits start up on the spinal and brain lesions as soon as this has has a couple of more years to really screw some people up. Not that it has not already, but now we have a baseline learning experience from commercial diving, and about five years of half assed , bullshit training agency air courses that shoud be paying dividends in these injuries shortly. Then we will see how smart these guys are, and how long their insurance has to pay out on the suits. This is a huge event waiting to happen, and it will happen, just as it did in commercial diving, where this stuidity is no longer practiced. Only the very worst dumb ass would still be teaching and recomending 150 foot air. I just hope that when the insurance money runs out that the lawyers can win every last dime these idiots have taken teaching deep air, ans then some. Don W. wrote: > > George, > > > Don, go to the UHMS and read studies until your eyes fall out. The > > German's have a great one. > > I went their website, and they don't have any papers online. I did > a cursory websearch and didn't find much on the web, so I guess I'll > have to continue my search at the UT Austin library. UHMS does fund > some research but like many other professional societies, they make > money from their publications so don't make them available online. > > > I think you might want to ask why the guys who hold all the records in > > cave diving , who have the best track record in diving, and who have > > been doing it longest think the way they do. <snip> > > I take your comments very seriously. > > > You might also want to ask why the obvious needs to be spelled out. > > That is essentially what I'm asking. It would only take a chamber, > 150 college age volunteers, and a well thought out experiment to > establish the curve of impairment for both nitrogen (and oxygen) once > and for all. I'll be surprised if this hasn't already been done, but > sure haven't seen anyone cite the paper yet. BTW, its illegal to drive > or carry a gun while impaired by alcohol or drugs, and the level of > impairment has been set at .08 by national consensus. It would be > interesting to see what PPN leads to the same mental impairment as a > .08 blood alcohol level. The experiment needed to establish this is > relatively simple and could be done in a couple of days under the right > conditions. > > > how many people have been killed air diving? How many have been killed > > where there is no good explanation, yet they were between 100 and 170 on > > air? How many more will go that way? > > These will continue until the issue has been so well studied that no > credible organization will argue about the facts. Divers will still > continue to kill themselves, but at least it will be for a different > reason. > > Later, > > Don W. > > > Don W. wrote: > > > > > > Okay... so maybe I'm just getting bored with the latest threads on > > > converting the US to metric units... or not. > > > > > > Tom Mount (IANTD) says he's personally comfortable to 170 feet on > > > air. George Irvine says you're stupid to go deeper than 130 feet on > > > air and probably shouldn't go _that_ deep. Numerous people have died > > > trying to push the SCUBA record of deep air to 500 feet or so. > > > > > > Question for all of you... > > > > > > What unexplainable stupid behavior have you seen from your > > > dive partners diving between 80 and 170 feet (on air) that would > > > indicate that they were seriously f____ed and didn't know it? > > > > > > Where are some good chamber studies with less subjective results > > > than a binary win/loss chess game indicating the progressive loss > > > of mental function at high nitrogen partial pressures? > > > > > > Where are some good chamber studies which eliminate the nitrogen > > > and study the progressive loss of mental function at high oxygen > > > partial pressures? > > > > > > The questions are clear, and I challenge all interested academics > > > to produce the citations, or think seriously of the simple indicated > > > experiments... > > > > > > Why does the issue of impairment due to high nitrogen or oxygen > > > partial pressures continue to be an item of debate within the > > > technical diving community? > > > > > > Hope this generates some good discussion, and either gets someone > > > to cite some papers, or do some chamber experiments and write them. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Don W. > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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