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>At 05:49 9/10/99 -0400, kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: >Tom, don't be so silly - I borrowed the book out of the library in 1990, >copied it, and returned it. Turner and Gavin were diving mix years >before that, and as you know, the next year is when Gavin and I started >diving together as regular partners, after Parker died. Neither one of >them taught me mix - I taught myself, but WKPP had already stopped air >diving back in 1990 - you still "teach" air diving. When did IANTD come >into being? > >Anyway, Tom, that makes no difference. As I said, I did stupid things, >and no longer do them. The point is that you still not only do them, you >teach them, support them, defend them and recommend them. > >I love the fact that not only do you have to go back years to even find >anything that I did which is stupid, you can not find a case where I had >any kind of accident or incident, where anyone under my supervision had >any accidents, or anything of any substance what so ever about my diving >life, and for your feeble attempts at claiming that I have done things >as dumb as what you currently do, teach , and recommend, well that is >pretty funny. > >Evem if I were this stupid, which I am not, if I or anyone else did do >them that is still no excuse for you to be doing them. I used to smoke >cigarettes, Tom, but next month, after years of not doing so, I am >competing in the Iron Man in Panama City. I learn, you do not - that is >the point. I am a good influence on diving, you are a fucking nightmare. > >As for Sally Ward, well that was not me bragging, that was Steve Irving >complaining about me diving 25% nitrox on a film dive, which we were >asked to do. Lamar and I were mixed for another dive, and had no >intention of diving below the top of the Cube Room . If we had fallen to >the floor , at 170, on 25% nitrox, then I guess we could have earned an >IANTD ceritfication for "deep advanced teachnical nitrox" since that is >exacly what you teach to this day, you moron. > >Again, I no longer do anything even that stupid ( diving a gas too >shallow for the potential depth). At least Steve Irving had the common >sense to call me on it way back then.The sneak gas was merely trimix >with no deco gas that Lamar and I used to use on our sneak dives , and >you have to go a long way back to find a time when I had to sneak any >cave. > >Bottom line - what do you do now and what do I do now - who sets the >good example, who does the right thing, who does the real dives, who >kicks ass and takes names, and who is the bullshit? Well, I think >anyone can answer that one, Tom, by a quick look at the scorecard. > >You need to make some serious nad drastic changes before one more day >goes by. George, I think Tom is a lost cause. it'll take a legal bunger of supreme court proportions up his proud ole ass to get a safety-oriented response from him. You see, old Tom has found the ultimate diversion from reality - a technical equivalent to fiddling while Rome burns. While he plays around with his agency standards - weaving them into a web of such complexity that they defy rational understanding, his instructors run riot - ignoring the standards, and displaying personal habits and ethics that truly challenge TDI for guardianship of the bottom of the barrel. For example, here in Oz, and twice in a row so far, a local IANTD standard -bearer has bailed and left his students during a trimix course. The reason is that he is teaching IANTD trimix while using a buddy inspiration cc rebreather. On the earlier course dive that he bailed from he managed to give himself a pp02 of around 6.0 and tox twice. On the next course dive he bailed when the electronics farted and gave up. A couple of years ago I would have emailed Tom privately about this culpable behaviour. But I now know what a waste of time that is. You see, last time I emailed him privately about one of his instructors teaching an IANTD trimix course while diving twin independants with one of mix and one of air, not only did old Tom not let me know whether he would follow it up, he didn't even acknowledge my post. I emailed him a couple of times more and waited weeks before he sent me a snotty response. I don't to this day know whether he took any action. So much for his avowed IANTD quality standards. Every time he gets on this list and pontificates about IANTD 'rules' and 'standards' I gag. 'Cause while he sits around playing with these hideously complex multi-level standards (which he and his so-called BOD know are only a complex cover for a student-milking system), his rogue instructors ignore Tom's 'safety consciuos' blather and go their own sweet way, teaching and spreading the infection of their slovenly, dangerous habits. I know. We've just had a fine example here of low instructor standards tainting an otherwise reasonable student. And in the face of all this IANTD madness at the coal-face, Tom sits there at the top knitting his tangle of ever more complex and arcane standards, pausing now and again only to defend some of the stupidest methodologies in diving, and some of the most unethical reprobate instructors. I've crossed him off my Christmas card list in case he reads some sort of encouragement into it. And I'm preparing a DIR-based media hand-out for use when the local IANTD facility snuffs a student. rgrds billyw Tom Mount wrote: > > George > Bull shit, remember you were diving on the boat with us and Jim Mims all > that time. You were doing your air dives at that time . you were still doing > your Bimbini trips and air wall dives to 300+ Alton and I were just > discussing those "ole Days" a few weeks back. > > Then even ;later after you became cave certified you bragged about your > sneak mix EAN 25 in Sally Ward. This was long after IANTD > > Seems funny how you at one time claimed Parker introduced you to mix and now > evidently you "claim to have dived mix much earlier. > > The first time I was aware of you doing mix was with Dan Knafe well after > IANTD was formed > > In fact on Bill Mee's last mix dive inhis course with me on the Cruz (the > one where he and I were adrift) You stated you were diving air that day. > > IANTD does and most likely will continue to teach air to 170. We tried to > get NAUI and TDI to cut back to 170 at least we got them to agree to 180 in > their programs. > > Whether you or I like it or not air to 170 is common and will most likely > always be. What we have found is we are able to convert many more people to > mix by having a deep air program (to max of 170 NOT A REQUIRED 170 - the > requirement is 2 dives deeper than 130 and no dives deeper than 170,Took a > lot to get that accepted in our program and I'm personally quite happy with > it) anyway most of the people who do take the Normoxic course originally > request the Technical diver course and I are whoever the instructor they > contact is explain the advantages of mix and most of them do the normoxic > trimix instead. However if we did not offer the technical diver level these > same people would not even call us in the first place. So we think one It is > a good way to convert them to mix > 2 we still agree as a body (BOA-BOD and licensee) that 170 is a safe limit. > > Bill referenced NACD accident records I think you will discover that the -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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