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Bill, I was wondering why Tom was mentioning HPNS - I thought maybe he was teaching welding at 800 feet now. The fact is that only the worst moron would try to dive deep enough on scuba, which includes rebreathers, to be worried about HPNS - the reason the have to worry about it on scuba is that they are trying to decend too fast, given that they have neither enough gas nor enough time to do the correct deco for the correct decent rate. Commercial diving with a push/pull rb from a bell with a ship dives to severe depths and works for hours with no problem, and no "air", but then they are not trying to prove anything, they are doing a job. These guys who feel the need to do this need to just get with a good psychiatrist and talk it out rather than kill themselves trying to prove that they do not have a case of pinkydickism, which even saying the word HPNS is this context implies in my opinion. You can't fix weenie with a trimix course. A weenie is a weenie, and diving does not cure being a weenie. However, as you point out , Bill, some of these third world desperadoes have little to live for , and nothing to lose, and nobody who cares. At the same time, the "discovery" of HPNS and the antiquated stories showing use of anesthetics as an offset ( rather than correct decent rates), is an easy opening for the deep air addicts to get off the wagon and get themsleves a nice buzz, what they are so hungry for but lack the balls to go do correctly on land. Diving is in a pathetic state, in my opinion, and we do not have to look very far to see the continuously approaching Burnham Woods of shielded stupidity and whence it originates. Bill Mee wrote: > > > Tell me, why on earth is the subject of HPNS even brought up in the course. > HPNS is irrelevant to anything in meaningful, routine technical diving. > Where HPNS is even a consideration, the depths and rigors of the dives fall > into the category of commercial saturation diving, which is conducted by a > far more repsonsible and rational set of rules. I can only guess that the > allure of "deep" and the assoication of "deep" with HPNS is the reason for > injecting this subject matter into a course where the focus should be on far > more mundane issues. This is equivalent to filling a course in freshmen > chemistry with topics from quantum electrodynamics. The implication is that > students need to be concerned with diving at depths of 400 to 500 ft, which > while romantic, is simply absurd. > > You need to seriously reconsider revisit these policies before somebody else > does so for you. > > Best regards, > > Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*> > To: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > Cc: a n <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 11:20 AM > Subject: Re: INTD "normoxic" and other trimixes > > >George > >the text includes the Technical Encyclopedia, the technical student > workbook > >a complete set of slides it is extremely well supported and in is our > >preferred dive program for people getting into deeper diving. The majority > >of instructors are able to get students who originally wanted to do > >technical diver to take this course as instead. > > > >I have no doubt that some people state they are comfortable on air toi > >greater depths however even if the technical diver program is taught they > >are forbidden to dive deeper than 170 feet. The technical diver course does > >require two dives deeper than 130 and no dives below 170. > > > >The Normoxic course is basically the same course except it does dives on > >trimix instead of air. The student is NOTALLOWED to dive air deeper than > 130 > >in this program. As has been stated several times on this list over the > past > >three years. The student does not have any requirement to have dived air > >deeper than 130 prior to getting into the course in fact they do not even > >have to have been to 130 just deeper than 90 feet prior to the course. The > >Normoxic trimix is a heavy deep diving theory course it does not get into > >HPNS and some other factors as these things are not of a concern to > Normoxic > >trimix. It is intense on skills and procedures. the course requires 3 dives > >deeper than 130 and a max depth not to exceed 200. Depths are worked up to > >in increments no greater than 30 feet from one dive to the next. > > > > > >The HPNS and other issues are addressed in depth in the trimix course where > >dives may evolve into dives that that knowledge is mandated. The full > trimix > >course has six dives also 2 of which can be on air or mix as they are just > >skill dives and need not be deep. Four dives are on mix and must be deeper > >than 160 and no deeper than 260 > > > >Again if people wish details go to the web page and read through the > >standards > > > >Respectfully yours, > >Tom Mount > >CEO IANTD World HQ > >http://www.iantd.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > >To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*> > >Cc: a n <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 8:45 AM > >Subject: Re: INTD "normoxic" and other trimixes > > > > > >> T, that is not the question - the question is what materials are > >> available for these courses. I personally have zero interest in this, > >> but had it mentioned to me by an IANTD instructor on a dive boat the > >> other day, the implications being that these courses are an accomodation > >> to outside pressure and are neither well supported by IANTD, nor really > >> intended to replace "deep air". I of course found this hard to believe > >> so sent you that question to see if it were really possible. > >> > >> Tom, there are people out there, believe it or not, who are so stupid as > >> to think ther is such a thing as an "ability" to dive deep on air, and > >> there are intstructors out there who are so stupid, and so irresponsible > >> that they say things like, "my personal comfort level on air is 200 > >> feet" in front of students, who then take this to mean that unless they > >> "can" be "comfortable" on air at "200 feet", they must not be cutting > >> the mustard. > >> > >> I know this is unbelievable to a pro like yourself, but I have heard > >> this direcdtly from the flapping lips of various instructors, > >> affilliation unknown. > >> > >> Anything that pays lip service only to the importance of proper gas > >> choices and true technical diving (which menas doing the dives proeprly > >> and optimally), is a disservice to all of us, and in my opinion would > >> require the attention of a dive training "leader" such as yourself for > >> clarification. > >> > >> > >> Tom Mount wrote: > >> > > >> > Anyone interested should go to the web pages and check the standards > for > >the > >> > texts and also the skills. that should answer anyone's questions > >> > > >> > Respectfully yours, > >> > Tom Mount > >> > CEO IANTD World HQ > >> > http://www.iantd.com > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > >> > To: <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*> > >> > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 3:45 PM > >> > Subject: INTD "normoxic" and other trimixes > >> > > >> > > Tom, I hear that there are little or no materials for your > "normoxic", > >> > > "intermendiate" or whatever "trimix" course. This would appear to > make > >> > > this course a case of "lip service" to those of us who have long been > >> > > critics of your "deep air" courses and policy. > >> > > > >> > > While I like the fact that you to at least appear to comply with > >> > > intelligent thinking, I find it appalling that the reality is you > >still > >> > > may not. > >> > > > >> > > Is this true? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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