Will, as you should know by now the scooter has its trigger on the right
sdie and should be driven from that side. The wash is below, but in
favoring the right side catches right sided stages, but this is still
not the overall problem - the bigger one is the mess it makes with the
attachment points and the interference with the other gear.

The fact is the sytem accomodates the addition of all gear, wheras your
quick fix methods require something diffenct for every situation - not 
the way we play the game.

The light needs to be removeable, not held on with a d-ring over it.
Stages on either side as in a pure sidemount config need to be very
tight up top , and need to be held flat for streamlining. There is no
long hose with sidemount, so attaching behind the light does not
interfere with any of that. 

In dives without a canister the hose is routed the same way - it floats,
so is no problem ( unless you are moon walking like a new open water
diver). The correct body position for diving and proper decompression is
flat - not upright, so the hose is fine by itself. If you can not manage
that, tuck a little in your belt.

I am suprised to see you take such an offhanded attitude about a system
that when used properly allows for streamlining with any amount of gear
- I think we have proven that a few times, about 18,000 times to be
exact, Will. Also, when we use the rebreather, we overlay the doubles
with the normal rig and it works perfectly, in fact a lot better than
the alterntive tried by our competition, quite clearly.

You clearly do not understand the difference between DIR and Hogarthian
- but the WKPP does, and it is very important. 


William M. Smithers wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Sean T. Stevenson wrote:
> >
> > In addition to clearance for the light canister and for discharge
> > thrust from the scooter, there are other reasons for keeping all deco
> > gas on the left side.  This position produces less drag as compared to
> > bilateral mounting, because the bottles are all in each others
> > slipstream.
> 
> No, I don't think so.  If you look closely, those are excuses
> for a single point, without which the DIR system falls
> apart completely: having the light cannister hold the extra long hose
> length on the right side.  Without that, everything else unwinds.
> 
> Look, last time I dived Open Circuit (a couple years ago), it was
> *Hogarthian* (as distinguished from Neo-Nazi DIR).  Either way, if there's
> no light cannister on the right hip, there's no 7' hose routing with neck
> wrap.  No neck wrap, and you're stuffing.  From there it's a progressive
> cluster.
> 
> But don't make up crap about streamlining and drag - I dive a bottle
> under each arm with my CCR regularly, because a long hose is pointless
> with a CCR, and there's no difference in drag.  Scooter prop wash
> is another bogus bunch of hoopla.  Like the chicken next to
> the red wheelbarrow in the rain, it all depends on the light...
> 
> -Will
> (for you folks with sloped foreheads: that was a literary riff
> on a quote from a poem by William Carlos Williams...so don't
> waste valuable calories wrinkling your brows).
> 
> Try this if you don't believe me - much easier to swim
> > with unilateral mounting.  Attitude offset is not an issue if you use
> > the correct (aluminum) cylinders for stages.  Another reason is
> > consistency, since with all bottles on the left the regs all feed the
> > same way, every time, in the same fashion as both the back gas
> > regulators.  In an emergency, conditioned responses are possible due to
> > this consistency.  With the stages mounted orifice up, the valve knob
> > is to the left, and in the event of a reg failure, can be easily
> > operated manually to deliver gas, with the left hand riding on the
> > bottle.  To do this on the right side, you have to mount orifice down
> > (inconsistent rigging) or have some sort of convoluted hand position,
> > and have the regulator rigged either from the wrong side or with a hose
> > that is too long - neither one an attractive option.
> >
> > >Rodger Rodger, I have never had a prob with this, its the gasses off one
> > >side that I struggle with, it has to be easier to have your marking
> > >system with the high and low gasses on different sides, the confusion
> > >has to be less.
> >
> > The problem with mounting high and low PPO2 gases on either side (other
> > than the mere disadvantages of bilateral mounting mentioned above) is
> > that this allows the diver to associate one side with a particular mix,
> > which can lead to breathing off of a bottle without proper positive
> > identification of the gas being breathed.  This is a CORE point of DIR:
> > that a gas be identified solely by the prominent MOD markings and not
> > by position, content decals, colour, mouthpiece, poodle jackets,
> > tactile aids or any other stupidity.  If you cannot positively identify
> > a gas, you do not breathe it, period.
> >
> > >G you mark them in feet, we mark them in metres, not our fault, it is
> > >the measuring system we use. With 50% our depth is 22m, normally21m is
> > >marked to avoid a 1.6 po2. Confusing when an air tank marked 21% could
> > >be close. Our bottles are turned off as well, not sure what you mean by
> > >parked, is this left on the line? I assume so, we dont do this, probably
> > >because we dont dive in caves and have options to surface.
> >
> > It doesn't matter if you use feet or meters as long as you are
> > consistent.  When I dive with Americans, we decide which units will be
> > used, and then ensure that ALL bottles are marked identically, and that
> > everyone dives with tables and gauges in the appropriate units.
> > Confusing an MOD with contents should never be a problem, if ALL
> > bottles are marked with MOD only, and every member of the dive team
> > should know and agree what a 3" high number on both sides, horizontally
> > in the orientation of the tank in its normal riding position, means.
> > Anything else is an invitation to disaster.  Parked means that the
> > second stage is clipped off at the first stage, near the neck of the
> > tank and not anywhere else where it could potentially be mistaken for a
> > different gas.
> >
> > >Simple hose, simple guage and thats optional, thats all. The point is
> > >you have to run with it on, I accept that. But remember if you use
> > >redundancy to its full then this has to apply to all stages of the dive,
> > >do you have redundant deco gas? If not then how do you cope with the
> > >same failure scenario that dictates the whole twin set back gas
> > >scenario?. The schedules used should always have a back up,the option
> > >here is do you take loads of 32%, 40% or whatever( I am in your camp
> > >about the 50% here and staying on the he) to cover the failure? or do
> > >you have redundant backup? the back mounted o2 is there as a bonus and
> > >should be regarded as such, ie shorten the deco, if it fails the your
> > >set up is still safe and the desired result of getting home is still
> > >okay, it just takes longer
> >
> > John, your buddies are your redundant deco gas.  Dive better than
> > thirds on everything, and for long dives, reserve the backgas for
> > emergencies, oxygen breaks, and wing inflation only.  Carrying the
> > oxygen is not the issue.  Carrying in on your back, in a high
> > entrapment potential location, where you cannot reach it to free it
> > should you become entangled, where it adds unnecessary drag that could
> > be avoided by mounting it another way, where the bottle identification
> > can not be seen, where it can not be quickly and easily handed off to
> > another diver, where a first stage failure can not be immediately dealt
> > with and gas delivery done manually, and where the second stage is not
> > clipped to the bottle neck and stowed in such a fashion as to make it
> > absolutely impossible to accidentally breathe off of this regulator
> > without first making a positive identification of the gas, is the
> > issue.  I can see you have given this a great deal of thought.
> >
> > >Simple I agree with, your system is very specific and we all can learn
> > >from it, it is not the answer to all types of diving.
> >
> > True, but for self contained applications other than 1 atmosphere
> > suits, it works everywhere.  Let me know if George takes you up on your
> > offer to come out there and set things straight - I might be interested
> > in a trip to Scapa Flow.
> >
> > -Sean
> >
> >
> > --
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> >


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