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---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date: 8/16/99 9:52 PM
Received: 8/16/99 9:44 PM
From: Capt JT, captjt@mi*.co*
To: Jim Cobb, cobber@ci*.co*
kirvine@sa*.ne*
Bill Mee, wwm@sa*.ne*
CC: Tech Diver, techdiver@aquanaut.com
mixdiver@in*.ne*
Fellow divers , no one on this list hates a back mounted pony bottle more
than ME , I was sure I had made that clear , I was also sure that I said
it
had not been breath.Jackie Smith did the mix Checks and pressure cks while
I was decoing , he ,without a doubt said that the pony was still full and
the back gas was down to 2900 from a start of 3500 which means he only
breath the back gas.I will reread my post and see if I made that clear ,
in
any case you may ask Jackie as I know he has already sent that info to
George privately.I also called him before my post to insure I was correct
on this.This is the whole truth , all the truth , so help me GOD!
Capt JT
Now if this were KC your guess would be correct.
At 05:34 PM 8/16/99 -0400, Jim Cobb wrote:
>George-
>
>If JT knows the information, or can find it out, he will tell the truth.
>He is against the pony bottle as much as you are and none of the crew he
>does serious dives with uses one. As a matter of fact you will most
>likely get laughed at if you come onto the Miss Lindsey with the "third
>tit" strapped between your doubles. I do know that those northern diver
>types do the travel mix stuff and like the ponies, so I would not be
>surprised if this was a contributing factor to the accident.
>
> Jim
>
>Sender: kirvine@sa*.ne* Date: 7/16/99 3:59 PM
>
>>Jim Cobb, can you get your boy JT to come off of this information. He
>>was overflowing with "info" about the accident, but managed to avoid
>>this glaring piece of insanity.
>>
>>Maybe also we could get one of the rocket scientist up there to tell us
>>why ponying a bottle behind your back with the bottle turned on with the
>>reg over your shoulder mixed in with the other two makes any sense, and
>>why trying to combine a totally unnecessary bailout, a suit inflation,
>>and a travel gas all in one where the gas in question, AIR, is not the
>>right gas for any of those applications, and why it is a good idea to
>>put a reg on an inflation bottle , why we need a pony with a dual port
>>manifold, why we need it behind us, why it should be AIR, and why nobody
>>up there has ever bothered to question any of this nonsense.
>>
>>If you guys are doing this, and think it is a good idea, surely you can
>>get on here and jsutify it.
>>
>>
>>Bill Mee wrote:
>>>
>>> JT,
>>>
>>> I thought I smelled something funny here and I should have guessed that it
>>> had the whiff of air. It seemed a bit odd that the only thing which
was not
>>> reported was the gas pressure and the regulator dispositon of the
Charlie's
>>> pony bottle. Naturally, I thought that the idea of an air pony was beyond
>>> the pale stupid, but when I noticed the photo of this deviant behavior
being
>>> proudly displayed on Christina Youngs website I began to suspect that the
>>> practice is more widespread than is freely admitted.
>>>
>>> After reflecting on the matter, it became clear that the "air pony" was
the
>>> probably the rat in the woodpile. IANTD still endorses the use of air
to 50
>>> metres, which is the approximate depth of the top of the Doria. I will
bet
>>> that the fear of breathing hypoxic trimix at the surface and the fear of
>>> breathing an hyperoxic deco gas past it's breathable depth is leading
people
>>> to use air as a travel gas. As George clearly pointed out this is not so
>>> smart. If one gets into any kind of cluster on the way down, which is
>>> usually where they occur, then the problem is vastly compounded.
>>>
>>> What never ceases to amaze me is that you guys love of the personal
>>> preference inevitably leads to the institutionalization of a farm animal
>>> practice. What other little secrets do you guys have in your tank boot?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
>>> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>> Cc: wwm@sa*.ne* <wwm@sa*.ne*>
>>> Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 11:29 AM
>>> Subject: Doria Deaths - Let's dive some air
>>>
>>> >JT, et al, let's get back to your recent Doria recovery. You all keep
>>> >skipping the fact that this guy had an air bottle ponied between his
>>> >doubles. Forgetting that this is too stupid for anyone but Christina
>>> >Young, who has this cluster on her web site in living color, maybe we
>>> >need to look a litle closer at just how this probably came into play.
>>> >
>>> > The guy was diving mix, right? Well, I have noticed that the farm
>>> >animals tend to tell people to use a "travel gas" from the surface,
>>> >rather than just drop down. Is there a chance that our boy did this with
>>> >his air pony and then effectively was diving air at depth when he had
>>> >his "problem"? Even when you switch to mix, it takes a couple of minutes
>>> >to take effect, meaning that even if he switched back before he hit
>>> >depth, he was still being effected. If one really has to do this, one
>>> >needs to do it with another trimix,and then hold position for two
>>> >minutes before continuing the decent, but that still should not be
>>> >ponied between the back tanks with the regs everywhere.
>>> >
>>> > Come on JT, what do you think? I realize that this is so stupid as to
>>> >be criminal, but I think it happened. How much gas ( air ) was left in
>>> >the pony, guys? Can you tell us that?
>>> >
>>> > By the way, the concept of a pony is a vestigal throwback to the days
>>> >of single port manifolds, where a pony was indeed a necessity. However,
>>> >as of about 1971, when the Benjamin ( dual port) manifold was created,
>>> >this became nonsense, and become totally useless when the isolator was
>>> >added to the dual port manifold. Only the worst boat monkee fails to
>>> >understand this.
>>> >
>>> > Then to put air in the pony is too much. Then to not know what
>>> >happened, and to report the accident while leaving out the most
>>> >important information, is why you guys keep having accidents.
>>> >
>>> > JT, are we going to stick with the bullshit, or are we going to start
>>> >learning something. Your call - make your move, tell us what really
>>> >happened. Where was the pony reg ( and what as the reg config) when you
>>> >recoved the body, and how much gas (air) was left in the pony?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
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