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Doing 30 minutes at 300 feet in the ocean is stupidity, for starters, the deco gas should be in aluminum 40's, and a stage bottle with that rig is insignificant when carried properly. 40's are carried on the hip when using a stage. Real simple, real easy, been there done that, you have not, or we would not be having this conversation. Doubling up inflators and wings is too stupid to contemplate, extremely dangerous, and an attempt at sovling a problem you yourself have created by diving the wrong rig. Even with a drysuit and steel, the drysuit is not a "backup inflation device", the natural buoyancy of the underware beneath the shell suit REQUIRES either steel tanks or extra weight with the aluminum tanks, not the other way around. Neopreme suits have their own additional set of ridiculus problems, and are a different subject not being discussed here. Susan, I can see you have spent enough time away from the real thing to be thinking like a moron again. You are in bad company when crap like this starts coming out of your mouth. I know you , I know you are not this stupid, so I will assume you have once again been caught in violation of Rule Number Two , which is "Don't listen to strokes". Did not a friend of yours just get fished out of the ocean dead with the rig you describe? All of you are so busy thinking about bulshit crap that means nothing that you are missing the entire point of DIR. susan m. innes wrote: > > It seems to me that even if you had a canister light because the > lack of light at 325' in the ocean necessitated it, using "extra" stages to > make up for the needed air to stay within thirds or even halves plus two > hundred because you're using double AL 80's instead of steel tanks and due > to a bottom time of 25-30 minutes, COULD be a potential unnecessary stress > on a diver. > > For example, if you had to take two extra stages to mkae up the > extra gas, plus your intermediate bottle of deco gas, plus your O2 bottle, > all being carried on your left side, NO SCOOTER, swimming around the wreck > on the bottom with four stages on your left, in a strong current, would be > no fun even if you were Janet Evans, Dave Scott or Mark Spitz in his prime. > > Doesn't it just logically seem easier to add redundant (dive rite or > halycon) wings than dragging along 2 extra stages in addition to the two we > all agree have to be carried, while trying to explore a cool wreck you've > paid a bunch of bucks to see? > > Deaths due to inability to get back to the surface are not the fault > of steel tanks but of poor skills. Even you agree you carry a lift bag in > the ocean why not pull it out and use it for bouyancy to get you to the > surface. > > I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to considering your lift bag as > your redundant "wings" - maybe carry two lift bags. Plus you assume someone > who dies because they can't get up from the bottom with steel tanks is going > to be able to get up from the bottom with double AL 80's after ditching > their stages ( which I presume the diver under your scenerio is supposed to > do after finding he has bouyancy problems). > > I think the diver should think about options of how to solve the > problem without creating another one - i.e. DCS. You solved the problem for > you and those who follow your thoughts by elimnating the use of steel tanks > in the ocean under all circumstances. I suggest another solution to what is > a bouyancy problem. > > And if you want to dive AL 80's with extra stages that's fine by me > too because it obviously works for you. But I find my steels make more > sense for the dive and I solve potential bouynacy problems in other ways. > > Now I have been known to drop my stages and tie them to the wreck > making swimming MUCH easier ........... just kidding. > > And the swimming is not a fitness problem for me. Shoot, I'd have to > factor in yet another stage bottle to make up for the gas consumption due to > humping all those bottles around on my left side in order to get 25 minutes > of BT. And I'm not out of shape. I work out alot and while I'm not > presently training for an IRONMAN, I do swim alot, run alot, lift weights > some, practice yoga and have for all my life, well yoga only the last 20 > years. I may not train as much as you but I'm certainly training alot and my > VO2 max is just fine. > > And you're right the archives are full of postings advocating AL > 80's in ocean dives by you and others. Now there is a few postings besides > Tom Mount's as to why steel tanks are a valid choice. Although I don't agree > with Tom's mandating the use of them to anyone as I think he does in the > IANTD standards (correct me if I'm wrong on this as don't have a copy of > 1999 standards). And if some choose to call me a strokette because I use > steel tanks - so be it. I'm not a duckling following someone, I'm a diver > going to 325' who is resposible for my own life and that of my buddy's. > > susan > > >Same side. It is far less drag, does not interfere with eveything else. > >I thought we had been over and over this. > > > >Guy Wittig wrote: > >> > >> George > >> > >> Just to fuel the flames - would you mount both stages on one side when you > >> are not using a scooter ? > >> > >> It seems that you would be better balanced (bouyancy and drag) with > >> bilateral stages (if it were not for the scooter). > >> > >> Or does it interfere with the light canister and the long hose ? > >> > >> Guy > >> > >> > Steel tanks > >> >> Let me say right off the bat that while I understand DIR uses aluminum > >> >> tanks (and a weight belt), that is just not sufficient gas for a > >> >> swimming deep gas dive with a sufficient reserve. Maybe a 10 or 15 > >> >> minute bounce dive, but our bottom times are routinely 20 to 30 > >> >> minutes at 200 to 350'. A scooter could change this but most are not > >> >> scootering. > >> >> Double steel with aluminum back plate (light) and aluminum stages are > >> >> needed. > >> >> With this weight comes the need for redundant lift. (Here comes the > >> >> flames) > >> >> Two separate Halcyon or Diverite wings with a wet suit, or only one > >> >> with a dry suit. > >> >> > >> >> Decompression stress > >> >> In order to provide the maximum safety margin while using high ppo2 > >> >> deco mixes (with breaks of course) and to ease diver exertion on deco > >> >> a Jon Line is essential. > >> >> The best option, if available, would be to arrange a free floating > >> >> deco line before hand. But if this is not available a Jon Line is an > >> >> efficient tool. > >> >> > >> >> Spare Mask > >> >> Since the ocean has no floor or ceiling like a cave, a spare mask is > >> >> essential. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Flame away fella's!!! > >> >> > >> >> Bill > >> >> > >> >> PS. I would be interested in hearing from any other ocean divers who > >> >> have any suggestions, as there is always room for improvement. > >> > > >> > > >> >-- > >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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