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How about the Halcyon integrated type weight system? I do not have experience with it, but it should be possible to develop integrated type weight systems which are more reliable than the (al to often dropped) weight belt. Does anyone use this system? ----- Original Message ----- From: Shimell, David (shimell) <shimell@se*.co*> To: <bdi@wh*.ne*>; <cspencer@te*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 17:28 Subject: RE: Halcyon experience in Australia? > Billy > > >I've seen 2 divers, quite experienced divers who should > >know better, struggling to stay afloat, really struggling > >to get their heads up out of the water to snatch a breath, > >when they should have just dropped the belt (one of them > >could have simply inflated his BC, but that's another story). > > Me too. We called him the hamster, trying to climb back into a RIB after > having a scare. He was in full kit at the time. It was like watching a > hamster on a wheel! > > >I remember in my beginning years I once jumped in over- > >weighted with a new steel tank and too much weight on the > >belt and struggled like a maniac to get round to the back > >of the boat. It only occured to me after I got hold of the > >ladder that I could have avoided the struggle by dropping > >my weight belt. > > BTDTGTTS. > > >So if Jack (the nipper) or his buddies ever need to drop > >the belt during self rescue or heling out someone else, I > >feel happier that it can be done quickly, easily and in a > >single movement. > > The best way IMHO is under the crotch strap, but I understand your points > about a newbie being more easily stressed and making the wrong decisions, > specifically forgetting to drop the weight belt. We see many sad cases of > drowning with newbies who panic and are found on the bottom with weight belt > still attached. > > My view is that if they forget to drop a weight belt when using a > conventional BC, then whether it is under or over the crotch strap makes no > difference at all. If we are considering an inexperienced diver who > accidentally loses a weight belt, there is the possibility that in panic they > will hold their breath on the ascent. This act is likely to produce severe > lung damage, whereas any bend would have most likely been curable. Thus, in > the case of a newbie, the ramifications of accidentally dropping a weight > belt is not of a bend but of lung damage which can occur at the depths to > which a newbie would be diving i.e. it can happen in a swimming pool. As > the diver progresses in experience and depth, lung damage should be less > likely but a bend more likely. An experienced diver should be able to cope > with removing the crotch strap to drop the weight belt but can do nothing > much to deal with a weight belt which has already been dropped by accident. > So avoiding the problem in the first place is the best action, i.e. retain > the weight belt under the crotch strap. > > >When they start to dive deeper or get into longer exposures, > >still no-deco stuff, but where a quick trip to the surface > >might have consequences, I'll introduce the alternate air > >source. I'm thinking about a 3 litre pony slung from the > >front - sort of early stage-training. What d'you think? > > I read this paragraph several ways, so please excuse me if I am inferring > incorrectly. > > Inference 1: if you are saying that to deal with the case of a dropped > weight belt, you are going to provide an alternative air source, this does > not make sense. Deal with the cause, not the symptom. I'm sure you don't > really mean this. > > Inference 2: if you are saying that if some problem occurs, you will provide > an alternate air source to allow the diver to sort the problem, then this is > common sense and what we all do. However, I can't see how this has any > bearing on how a weight belt is carried. In fact, having a alternate air > source furthers the argument of carrying the weight belt under the crotch > strap. It takes longer to drop the weight belt when under the crotch strap. > The alternate air source provides additional time over that available from > the primary air source. > > Moving on to your possibly-not-so-related issue of carrying a pony, I > presume you mean having it stage mounted on the left. I prefer to think of > ponies as small stage bottles. This is for two reasons: > > 1. If you carry one, you rig it the same way as a stage. > 2. The gas capacity of the stage must be appropriate to the dive being > undertaken. > > Note that I have not entered the debate on single plus stage vs. Doubles. I > occasionally dive with a 3 litre stage but carry oxygen in it for deco and I > dive doubles. I don't own a 3 litre cylinder so don't dive this arrangement > very often besides, my deco is requires more gas than is available in a 3 > litre stage. However, I don't see how a stage is relevant to your point? > > David Shimell > Project Manager, Sequent Computer Systems Ltd., Sandton, South Africa. > Email: shimell@se*.co* <mailto:shimell@se*.co*> > > -----Original Message----- > From: bdi@wh*.ne* [SMTP:bdi@wh*.ne*] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 4:23 PM > To: Shimell, David (shimell); cspencer@te*.co*; > techdiver@aquanaut.com > Subject: RE: Halcyon experience in Australia? > > At 03:44 AM 12/5/99 -0700, Shimell, David (shimell) wrote: > >Billy > > > >Excellent post. > > > >You mention: > > > >>He wears a standard weight belt over the crotch strap. > > > >One of my dislikes of weight belts is that they can come loose. I would > >prefer to wear the weight belt under my crotch strap so that if it does come > >loose, the crotch strap will snag the weight belt thereby preventing a rapid > >ascent. The disadvantage with this approach is that dropping a weight belt > >is a two step act: release crotch strap and release weight belt. > > > >I recognise that a dropped weight belt is less severe a problem in a > >recreational dive but I have seen weight belts dropped more frequently by > >accident than by design. Thus the failure mode here is accidental dropping > >of the weight belt. > > > >Comments? > > I've seen 2 divers, quite experienced divers who should > know better, struggling to stay afloat, really struggling > to get their heads up out of the water to snatch a breath, > when they should have just dropped the belt (one of them > could have simply inflated his BC, but that's another story). > > I remember in my beginning years I once jumped in over- > weighted with a new steel tank and too much weight on the > belt and struggled like a maniac to get round to the back > of the boat. It only occured to me after I got hold of the > ladder that I could have avoided the struggle by dropping > my weight belt. > > So if Jack (the nipper) or his buddies ever need to drop > the belt during self rescue or heling out someone else, I > feel happier that it can be done quickly, easily and in a > single movement. > > When they start to dive deeper or get into longer exposures, > still no-deco stuff, but where a quick trip to the surface > might have consequences, I'll introduce the alternate air > source. I'm thinking about a 3 litre pony slung from the > front - sort of early stage-training. What d'you think? > > rgrds billyw > > > > > > >David Shimell > >Project Manager, Sequent Computer Systems Ltd., Sandton, South Africa. > >Email: shimell@se*.co* <mailto:shimell@se*.co*> > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: bdi@wh*.ne* [SMTP:bdi@wh*.ne*] > >Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 1:41 AM > >To: cspencer@te*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com > >Subject: Re: Halcyon experience in Australia? > > > >At 01:07 PM 9/5/99 +0930, Cathy Spencer wrote: > >>Hi all, > >> > >>I am a new OW recreational diver, looking for divers in South Australia, > >>in the Adelaide area who have experience with the Halcyon style BC and > >>long hose. > >> > >>I agree with the DIR philosophy, and like the simplicity and minimal > >>configuration of the gear. However, there are no dealers in Australia > >>who can provide (I havent found any) support for this gear..or the > >>philosophy. > > > >Cathy, I dive a hogarth/DIR set up, along with a > >couple of other Sydney divers. > > > >My son did his OW certification last year and I > >built him a hogarth single rig. > > > >I got a small zeagle wing from a dive shop bits & > >pieces bin, and attached it to one of those small > >triangular plastic back-pacs that were popular before > >jacket style BCs came in. You can still find the > >plastic back-pacs inside some BCs (Apollo, I think). > >Dive shops often have them in the spares pile. They > >have a slot for a cam band which attaches to the > >cylinder - in our case a 63 cu ft alloy. > > > >I threaded a single, continuous piece of webbing > >through the bac-pac to make shoulder straps and > >waist straps. I then added a couple of bent d-rings > >to the shoulders, and one to the left waist strap, > >a weight-belt buckle to the waist strap, and a crotch > >strap that loops round the waist strap at the front. > > > >We added a pair of line shears in a webbing pouch > >that loops onto the waist strap and that's it. > > > >He uses a normal DIN first stage with a second stage > >on a short hose bungied round his neck and the primary > >second stage on a longer hose. The inflator hose goes > >through a loop of bungee on the left shoulder d-ring > >and a contents guage (NOT a boot full of instruments, > >JUST the contents guage) is clipped off to his left waist > >d-ring. He wears a bottom timer or an older aladin pro > >on his right wrist. > > > >He wears a standard weight belt over the crotch strap. > > > >The rig is so streamlined that, from the front, Jack > >(the nipper) doesn't look like he's wearing a bc at > >all. At the back, there's just the small wing protruding > >either side of the cylinder. > > > >It takes an extra 20 seconds to don - the crotch strap > >is an extra step - but in the water, his trim (attitude) > >and lack of swimming resistance is awesome. It's the > >slickest set-up I've seen. He's really happy with it. > > > >If you want a ready-made solution, you will be able > >to mail-order a DIR single tank backplate and harness > >from Halcyon in the US. > > > >Compared to what you'll pay for the full BC catastrophe > >here in Oz, it's not expensive and it dives far, far > >better. > > > >rgds billyw > > > >ps, If it will help, I'll take some shots of the set-up > >and put them on a web site. Let me know. > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >>I would like to try out the gear here in Australia, and would really > >>benefit from advice from a local diver who has had the experience with > >>Halcyon. Or who could let me dive with the gear. > >> > >>I have talked to a local prominent cave diver instructor here, and he is > >>dead set against the idea of a long hose. So no support there. > >> > >>So I am stuck between choosing a back lift style BC, from a supported > >>brand (ie Sherwood outback) and the Halcyon gear, which I havent tried, > >>but think is better. > >> > >>Any help would be appreciated, > >> > >>Cathy Spencer > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>Email:cspencer@te*.co* > >> > >>Analog Electronics : > >>The pristine regimented symmetry of digital circuit boards > >>is occasionally interrupted by an irregular huddle of linear > >>components. These aberrants are tolerated because they perform > >>a variety of tasks necessary to keep the digital system running. > >>------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>-- > >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > >> > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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