I'm getting a lot of flak for this...  First off, when I said I do not
trust my decompression planning to computers, I meant dive computers
which incorporate real time data sampling underwater, which was my
objection.  Using a software program on a PC to generate your tables
still allows you to see the entire profile at a glance, make changes if
you have to, and know that they are correct BEFORE you take them into
the water.  I generally use Buhlman ZLH-16 or DCIEM with modifications
for deep stops.
Second, as you have pointed out it is a good idea to carry tables as
backup anyway, so the computer just seems to be an unnecessary expense
(and convolution, because you have to let it know when you switch
gases, etc.), as compared to just a good bottom timer.  I have no
objection to carrying a computer, but rather to relying on one for
decompression planning.

-Sean


On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 18:35:41 +1000, Mullard, Geoff (Ex AS09) wrote:

>Sean,
>
>May I ask how you obtain your tables, do you use deco software from some
>such software house ? ie, Abyss, Voyager, et all.
>
>Or do you use DCIEM, IANTD, TDI or some other training agency tables ?
>
>Would it be a fair question to ask how your tables where generated, might
>they have been generated by a third party " from an
>electronic device " ?
>
>I agree that the best dive computer is the one between your ears !! Carrying
>a computer and a backup extract of your tables covering the planned dive
>plus a contingency or two and decoing to the most conservative is not going
>to harm you !!
>
>Geoff. 
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:	Sean T. Stevenson [SMTP:ststev@un*.co*]
>> Sent:	Saturday, January 09, 1999 9:00 AM
>> To:	Kevin Connell; Phi Le
>> Cc:	TECHDIVER@AQUANAUT.COM
>> Subject:	RE: Nitek3, Nemesis IIa Warts and All
>> 
>> In fact they are not the same, as the computer algorithms seem to be
>> overly conservative, presumably for liability reasons, and will not
>> generate the deep stops, so these have to be added manually.  I have a
>> big problem with blindly accepting ceilings and stop times from an
>> electronic device in this sort of environment.  Dive computers make it
>> easier for persons to get in the water without properly planning the
>> dive, and to wreak havoc on their physiologies with all sorts of weird
>> sawtooth profiles.  Plus, if you and your buddies do not own the same
>> model of computer, whose profile do you follow?  There are subtle
>> differences in the algorithms used in all of these things, and the more
>> "conservative" it is, the more likely the shape of the curve is
>> complete nonsense.  Tables can not cease functioning, and so would seem
>> to be the better alternative.  Admittedly this does take a little more
>> time and effort, but then this goes back to OW1 - Plan the dive, dive
>> the plan.
>> 
>> -Sean
>> DIR(ODDIAA)
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:43:00 -0800, Kevin Connell wrote:
>> 
>> >Phi - They are the same model, but not the same program or environment.
>> >
>> >DC's are "real time", and must deal with real world data sampling.
>> >
>> >It's quite a bit easier and safer to validate whatever your deco software
>> >is telling you on your PC rather then just trusting your computer
>> underwater.
>> >
>> >Also, I believe (although I don't bother with a second timer myself) that
>> >the optimal DIR is one bottom timer/depth gauge (pref. uwatec) and one
>> >wristwatch.  The stopwatch is nice for timing interesting stops that
>> aren't
>> >on minute boundaries.  (Not that I do that either).
>> >
>> >
>> >At 09:36 AM 1/8/99 -0600, you wrote:
>> >>Sean,
>> >>
>> >>Aren't dive computer and decompression software more or less use
>> practically
>> >>the same deco model(s) ? On deeper dives, I cut tables too. But I was
>> >>referring to week-end diving where one doesn't necessary dive deep or on
>> >>trimix. May be I am off, but trimix is expensive here (Asia) and we
>> don't
>> >>use it on anything less than 40-50m.
>> >>
>> >>Again, I understand your feeling when it comes to certain unreliable
>> >>computer (i.e. CockRing Nemesis). I did mentioned that my Nemesis IIa
>> die
>> >>when I still had considerable time left on deco.
>> >>
>> >>Just my $0.02 too :-)
>> >>
>> >>	Sean wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I do not trust my decompression planning to any computer.  I use a
>> Uwatec
>> >>> BT and a watch, and cut tables for all dives. Just my $0.02
>> >>> 
>> >>> On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 00:26:38 -0600, Phi Le wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> >Brett,
>> >>> >
>> >>> >I agree with you, but I don't think anybody would buy the NiTek3 to
>> use
>> >>> solely as a bottom timer for trimix dives. It is just an added
>> feature.
>> >>> You should always have 2 timers anyway. So Uwatec and NiTek3 (in gauge
>> >>> mode) would do it.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Plus you have a computer for 'everyday' diving. Let's face it, most
>> >>> people don't do trimix dive every week-end, and certainly most people
>> >>> don't cut table for every dive. Do you have a computer ?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Phi
>> >>> 
>> >>--
>> >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >------------------------------------
>> >Kevin Connell  <kevin@nw*.co*>
>> >
>> >NW Labor Systems
>> >http://www.nwls.com
>> >
>> >"I suppose you want a user interface 
>> >with that.."
>> >-------------------------------------
>> >--
>> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>


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