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Garrett- This "wreck rapist" inflammatory language of yours is bound to make you the target of folks with dissimilar views, so why do you use it? This is very mean-spirited and unfair tactic. In the current bipartisan sprit of reconciliation I offer the following: The fact is that there are many wrecks out there which have over the years completely disintegrated and are now buried under tons of sand. What good is a porthole when this inevitably, and I say again *inevitably* happens? If a porthole (or whatever) graces a museum or someone's den is irrelevant. The fact is that wrecks in salt or brackish water, or in areas of shifting sand sooner or later the wreck and it's artifacts are gone, gone, gone. There are certain wrecks in fresh water which are in suspended animation and I agree, should be left alone. But for those in salt or brackish water, someone might as well salvage bring some stuff up before mother nature reclaims whats hers. Jim Sender: Garrett Weinberg Date: 12/21/98 9:49 AM >Before we take this public: > >(1) My e-mail to you was labeled private e-mail right at the top of the >e-mail >(2) You have choosen to take this public without regard to common courtesy >(3) You then delete the phrase <Private e-mail> in appending my response >to your >e-mail > >Thus speaketh the act of a civilized man? > >You state in your e-mail (below): > >& yes i am different then some grafitti minded jerk carving his name in the >caves if you can't tell the difference then we have no need to continue this >conversation! > >How would I know that when you have shown me and the rest of the techdiver >community that you are willing to disregard courtesy with respect to >e-mails. Why >would I suddenly expect more from you? > >On to the subject at hand: > >(1) Most "rescues" of artifacts end up in garages or basements of wreck >rapists. >They ain't rescued and they ain't artifacts. They are trophies of the hunt. > >(2) The only people who see these "historic artifacts" are the diver's >buddies or >visitors who wonder what the hell that port hole is doing in the downstairs >"entertainment" center. They ain't on display at museums. > >(3) Museums don't want another porthole from the USS Minnow. They already >have >rejected dozens of donated portholes that have been "given" to them by other >wreck rapists. > >(4) Ask the folks who visited the Edmond Fitzgerald about all of the >treasures >that they brought back. If I remeber correctly, they left (left not >removed) a >plaque commemorating the sailors who died on the Edmond. > >(5) Ask the divers who visit the warships at Truk (or whatever its now >called). >How many of them bring home skulls or other "trophies" or "collectables" > >(6) Many of us have already seen the results of wreck rapists at work. >Anything of >"value" has been stripped off and the only things we see underwater are the >pitiful remains. > >(7) Don't use the monitor example with me. I separate the issue of visitng >vs. >plundering. If I'm no longer permitted to "visit" a wreck, it is probably >because >its been plundered by folks who can't leave their crowbars at home. It is >safe to >say that the wreck rapist have "wrecked": it for the rest of us who either >prefer >to just visit or take pictures. > >(8) Why not leave it. If we don't plunder, then we do have a convincing >argument >that we can make with various governments that we should be permitted a >visit - >that approach worked with the Edmond, it works with the ships at Truk, it >probably >will work with the ships at Bikini. > >(9) I've never said that the governnment is saving our wrecks. I've said that >given the choice between idiots raping a wreck and leaving nothing for the >rest of >us to see, I would prefer the wreck to be off limits. If we can't control >our own >greed, we don't deserve the pleasure of the visitr. > > >If you wish to continue this discussion, quote me exactly. Prove to me >that you >are different from the folks who carve their initials in caves. The jury >is still >out. > >Garrett Weinberg > >GarlooEnt@ao*.co* wrote: > >> unfortunatly garrett you & people like you are the joke in this tragedy. >> the divers that have chosen to rescue artifacts from shipwrecks & the people >> who would never have a chance to see them are the real victims here. >> you want to place your trust in the government on this issue! thisshows me >> your ignorance of the facts. you & people like you are just blind lemings >> following the >> asshole in front of you. >> let me give you an example of the government control & what it means >> >> i'm sure you are familliar with the Monitor- you know that vry important >> Civil War wreck that the government refused to let divers near until they >were >> forced too. >> well after keeping us rapists off the wreck the navey is in the process of >> physically tearing the wreck apart to "rescue" the gun turit. >> now let me say that i have no problem with them doing this except for a >> few things. >> 1- it will cost you & me an outrages amount of money. >> 2- they have no clue how to do this & save the rest of the ship, or >the >> remaining small artifacts. they will be lost forever when the rest of the >> wreck collapses & is covered by the sand >> so please spare me the retorict of our wonderful government saving our >wrecks. >> >> & yes i am different then some grafitti minded jerk carving his name in the >> caves if you can't tell the difference then we have no need to continue this >> conversation! >> >> In a message dated 12/20/98 8:33:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, >> scubait@ix*.ne*.co* writes: >> >> << You are joking of course. (At least I hope you are jo)king >> >> Given the alternative between wreck rapists and total control, I think I >> would >> prefer total control by the authorities rather than having ass holes ripping >> out >> more port holes.( I hate the thought of any government regulation and thus, >> the >> concept of me supporting government regulation should tell you how unhappy I >> am >> with your statements.) >> >> Are you any different that the fools who insist on carving their names in >> caves so >> that they can remember their dives? >> >> Garrett Weinberg >> > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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