Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
I agree, jesse, the shop I go to has a haskell, and I use it quite a bit.
The last time I used it, it took about 200 cu ft of air @ ~2200 to boost 4
cu ft of argon from 300 to 2500 into my catalina 13. (started out at 1500)
Personally, if I owned one, I'd probably use it to add helium to a 1/2 full
set of doubles from ~1000psi cascade , and that's about it.
At 01:09 PM 11/24/98 -0600, you wrote:
>With all due respect, bullshit.
>
>Haskels are neat, but Haskels will eat your shorts finacially if you don't
>use them wisely. Once the delta between source gas (the big o2 bottle, for
>example) and the destination bottle (your scuba tank) becomes greater than
>about a grand, you are spending too much money on drive gas (low pressure,
>but high volume gas, usually air, drives a Haskel). Also, they become less
>efficient as the source bottle (the big o2 bottle) pressure drops, so if
>you are using them to get the last dregs from a bottle before you take it
>back, you are going to get clobbered paying for the drive gas.
>
>In summary, they are ideal for going from say, 2640 to 3000, but they suck
>going from say 1000 to 3000 or 200 to 1000.
>
>Trout
>Former owner and operator of a Dive Rite sold Haskel boast pump, thank you
>very much.
>
>----------
>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
>> To: Case E. Harris <diveman@cy*.co*>; Jesse Armantrout
><armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> Subject: Re: Question on O2 (was RE: 80% AARGH!)
>> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 12:07 PM
>>
>> I think Joel is just pointing out what an invaluable tool a haskel can
>be.
>> If you've ever used one that is set up with a gas manifold for mixing,
>> you'll kick yourself in the butt for not buying one sooner. We seldom
>boost
>> O2 higher than about 2600 and occasionally I'll boost to 3000, BUT that
>is
>> with keeping things nice and cool. 3000 seems to be the unwritten
>> threshhold, and it just doesn't seem necessary most of the time.We have a
>> high performance filter in line that we cool with water, and just use
>common
>> sense. We bank 32% and air, and then with the haskel you can mix up
>whatever
>> you're heart desires with NO HASSLE, just switch the supply gas and purge
>> the line. I've pumped out enough doubles of tri-mix and 2 deco gas mixes
>for
>> up to 16 people in less than a few hours with zero mistakes and no wasted
>> gas. I wouldn't trade the Haskel for anything, it makes it incredibly
>fast
>> and pays for itself quickly (especially if you use it on a daily basis)
>in
>> gas savings alone.
>> Regards,
>> Dell Motes
>> Dive Rite
>> 117 W.Washington St.
>> Lake City, Fla. 32055
>> www.Dive-Rite.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Case E. Harris <diveman@cy*.co*>
>> To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>;
>techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 1:19 AM
>> Subject: Question on O2 (was RE: 80% AARGH!)
>>
>>
>> >Divers-
>> >This raises an interesting question in my mind, and perhaps the list as
>> >a whole can shed some light for me... I've been around people who do
>> >Haskell Oxygen...AL bottles full to 3000psi, and I've had a rather well
>> >thought of blender/tech tell me he's afraid of O2 higher than about 2400
>> >psi.
>> >
>> >I would like to hear the opinions of anyone out as to the safety of
>> >boosting O2. Does everyone just fill to 2250? I understand why one
>> >wouldn't fill to 3000 w/o a booster, but is it really that dangerous to
>> >fill higher?
>> >
>> >Joel? NAUI doesn't say much on this...what's your opinion?
>> >Tom? IANTD's view?
>> >George? What is the WKPP standard for high pressure O2?
>> >Anyone else? what's the standard in other parts of the world?
>> >
>> >Thanks...
>> >-Case
>> >
>> >Jesse Armantrout wrote:
>> >>
>> >> maybe this one is common sense, but I've not seen it posted before...
>> >>
>> >> Another reason for liking 100% is that when I turn a bottle on and see
>> 3000
>> >> psi, I know that isn't oxygen. (I don't Haskel o2) This gives me a
>warn
>> >> fuzzy feeling.
>> >>
>> >> Trout
>> >>
>> >> ----------
>> >> > From: Nanci LeVake <nlevake@pi*.co*>
>> >> > To: Joel Silverstein <joelsilverstein@wo*.at*.ne*>;
>> >> gwaw@ix*.ne*.co*
>> >> > Cc: Techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> >> > Subject: Re: 80% arrrgh!! was Re: On the left
>> >> > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:36 PM
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Arnie,
>> >> >
>> >> > Something Joel forgot to mention is that if you need O2 for a
>medical
>> >> > emergency, and you are using 100% O2 for deco, you already have the
>> right
>> >> > gas there with you.
>> >> >
>> >> > Nanci
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > At 10:14 AM 11/23/98 -0500, Joel Silverstein wrote:
>> >> > >Dear Arnie,
>> >> > >
>> >> > >It is quite easy to pump 100% oxygen to 3000 psi -- the dive shop
>> needs
>> >> to
>> >> > >make the investment in a proper oxygen service rated Haskel Gas
>> booster.
>> >> > >Most any reputable dive center who is mixing gas for the consumer
>> should
>> >> > >have one, anyone that does not should step up pet the pony and buy
>> one.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >80% EAN was not created from a decompression standpoint it was
>> justified
>> >> by
>> >> > >those who did not have a gas booster. Here's why. Oxygen gets
>> delivered
>> >> in
>> >> > >2400 psi bottles, (some major cities have gas suppliers who can
>supply
>> >> at
>> >> > >3500 psi) however you can cascade into a 3000 psi rated cylinder
>about
>> >> 2250
>> >> > >psi of oxygen top up to 3k with air and you have 80% oxygen
>content.
>> >> Simple
>> >> > >enough. However .......
>> >> > >
>> >> > >80% EAN limits you severely. 1. at 20 and 10 fsw its PPO2 is too
>low
>> >> make
>> >> > >it useful, at 40 fsw its too high for maximum exposure limits.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >10 fsw 1.04 po2 too low
>> >> > >20 fsw 1.28 po2 too low
>> >> > >30 fsw 1.53 po2 borderline
>> >> > >40 fsw 1.77 po2 too high
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Where as 100% oxygen is
>> >> > >
>> >> > >10 fsw 1.30 po2
>> >> > >20 fsw 1.61 po2
>> >> > >
>> >> > >(with the 10 fsw stop normally being taken at 20 fsw
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Advocates of the EAN80 (a/k/a stroke mix) have come up with a
>variety
>> of
>> >> > >reasons to justify not using 100% oxygen --- one of the great ones
>is
>> >> "its
>> >> > >good for divers who have trouble holding buoyancy at 10 and 20 fsw"
>> >> > >frankly if a technical diver cant hold a 20 fsw stop --- they
>should
>> go
>> >> > >bowling and get the hell out of the water.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Most divers who are using accelerated decompression tables have
>> >> > >standardized on their decompression mixes. (some are finding that
>> >> > >hyperoxginated heliox mixes are working well too though that is
>beyond
>> >> the
>> >> > >scope of this email)
>> >> > >
>> >> > >EAN 36 from 110 fsw
>> >> > >EAN 50 from 70 fsw
>> >> > >100% oxygen from 20 fsw
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Granted when you run one of the consumer dive profiling softwares
>you
>> >> may
>> >> > >see only a small decrease in decompression time -- maybe 5 minutes
>by
>> >> using
>> >> > >100% over EAN80. and though you may belive that is not a
>significant
>> >> enough
>> >> > >advantage to make sure you have 100% oxygen here are a few more
>> >> > >non-scientific reasons. From a mixing standpoint unless you are
>using
>> >> > >exceptionally clean hyper filtrated air or air produced from an oil
>> free
>> >> > >compressor there is risk of explosion when mixing high pressure air
>on
>> >> top
>> >> > >of 100% oxygen. It probably has not happened yet --- but some day
>some
>> >> > >goober will blow up a building doing it. Even if you are using a 30
>> >> cuber
>> >> > >(small) just cascading 2400 psi oxygen in it will give you 24 cuft
>of
>> >> > >oxygen -- for deco thats easily 40 minutes worth, which is a lot of
>> gas.
>> >> No
>> >> > >need to goober around making EAN80 for the other 6 cuft, its just
>too
>> >> much
>> >> > >work for it and I am sure it costs a bit more, besides if you are
>> doing
>> >> a
>> >> > >dive that requires much more than 40 minutes of oxygen
>decompression
>> you
>> >> > >would want a bigger tank. The fact that a tank has a pressure
>rating
>> of
>> >> > >3000 does not mean you have to fill it to that level. I have an
>> >> excellent
>> >> > >tank chart for all currently available tanks in the US on our web
>> site -
>> >> go
>> >> > >look at it. Next; most consumer available oxygen analyzers using
>> >> > >electrochemical sensors can be off by as much as 2% in their
>readings,
>> >> so
>> >> > >is your 80% really 80 or is it 78? Whereas pure oxygen is upwards
>of
>> 99%
>> >> > >pure -- it's a known item.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Arnie, as a techie in training you have an opportunity right in
>front
>> of
>> >> > >you. It's two roads ... the left road is filled with exploration,
>> >> > >friendships, technology and long proven safety procedures. The
>right
>> >> road
>> >> > >is bumpy, full of mis answered questions, body bags, and strokified
>> >> > >convolution. I get the feeling your want to take the high road and
>do
>> it
>> >> > >right. In Judaic studies we are taught to ask why not to follow
>> blindly.
>> >> > >So in this very long winding response (If I had more time it would
>> have
>> >> > >been shorter) the answer is .... EAN80 buys you 6 cuft more gas,
>but
>> >> buys
>> >> > >you nothing else. Take no shortcuts when it comes to technical
>diving.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Good Luck
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >At 10:21 PM 11/22/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>> >> > >>Joel,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>Another question for you. It is prompted by your post on the
>bottle
>> >> > >>marking issue.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>What is the advantage of 100% O2 compared to 80% O2. I've been
>using
>> >> > >>the latter for deco. For one, it is somewhat easier to get at
>local
>> >> > >>dive shops because it is harder to pump the 100% to 3,000 psi, but
>> that
>> >> > >>is merely convenience. More importantly, I can get on the 80% at
>> 30ft
>> >> > >>and have the advantage of breathing a higher gradient gas mix
>sooner
>> >> > >>than waiting to the 20ft stop. The published tables I've seen
>give
>> no
>> >> > >>time advantage to doing deco on 100% over 80%.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>What is your view and why? TIA.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>Blow gentle bubbles,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>Arnie
>> >> > >>Tech Diver in Training
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >Joel Silverstein
>> >> > >Scuba Training + Travel Co.
>> >> > >http://www.NitroxDiver.com
>> >> > >--
>> >> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> > >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> --
>> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> > \ \
>> >^_ \ \ Case E. Harris
>> > \ \ { \ US Deep Wreck Diving Team
>> > { \ / `~~~--__ diveman@cy*.co*
>> > { \___----~~' `~~-_
>> > \ /// ` `~. ___ Oo
>> > / /~~~~-, ,__. , /// __,,,,) (___)o_o
>> > \/ \/ `~~~; ,---~~-_`~= //====--//(_)
>> > / / \\ ^
>> > '._.' Deep...Professional...The Standard!
>> >--
>> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >
>--
>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------
Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*>
Northwest Labor Systems
http://www.nwls.com
Lake Stevens, WA
--------------------------------------------------
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]