Errol
The safest position was if the situation that the out of air diver
approached from behind and began gas sharing and the particular part of the
cave made it impractical or less safe to pass to the front until the cave
structure allowed a safer change of position.

I used to always insist that he out of air diver be immediately moved to the
front until Lamar Hires explained how in some instances this would create
more problems than add in solving them. As you practiced when you went
through your course I have the out of air diver in front. Except we discuss
and do a short run reflecting the scenario that Larmar introduced me too. On
DPV all effort is to have the out of air diver in front

Errol all divers do not have backup scooters and all scooter dives are not
made with stages, Like you I have no problem having the out of air diver run
my scooter while I'm towed behind. Glad you have an open mind

Respectfully yours,
Tom Mount
CEO IANTD World HQ
http://www.iantd.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Errol Kalayci <errol@ga*.ne*>
To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; Richard Pyle
<deepreef@bi*.or*>; kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
Cc: cavers@ca*.co* <cavers@ca*.co*>; Randylabel@ao*.co*
<Randylabel@ao*.co*>; rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>;
techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: gas sharing and restrictions in caves #2


>Tom,
>I am somewhat of a cave diving novice with only about 100 caves dives under
>my belt, most of which have been fairly long and deep.  With that said, I
>have a couple questions regarding your post below:
>1) what do you mean by a safest position, until you can get the guy with
the
>long hose in front of you?
>2) If I am scootering with a buddy and he runs out of air due to some weird
>happening & his scooter takes a dump, I would put him on the long hose, and
>calm him down until we reached the safety bottles.  I would also hope he
>goes to his back up scooter or I would give him mine.  If we did not have
>back up scooters since we were not going very far (i.e. Hinkle in Ginnie),
>then I would give him my scooter to ride while he tows me (I would tow his
>scooter after pinning the trigger and dialing it down) with him on my long
>hose.  That way, I could not lose him and rip the reg out of his mouth.  Of
>course, I would have paid strict attention to Rule #1 so I would not worry
>about him driving the scooter out with me being towed.
>
>Do I have this scenario all wrong?  Just trying to learn.
>Regards,
>Errol
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; Richard Pyle
><deepreef@bi*.or*>; kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
>Cc: cavers@ca*.co* <cavers@ca*.co*>; Randylabel@ao*.co*
><Randylabel@ao*.co*>; rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>;
>techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 12:41 PM
>Subject: Re: gas sharing and restrictions in caves #2
>
>
>>Opps almost forgot. In normal gas sharing the out of air diver leads and
>the
>>who is the donor is either behind or beside the out of air diver.
>>Some Exceptions include
>>
>>1. if in a restricted area where gas sharing starts the divers may remain
>in
>>the safest order until the cave is large enough to allow the out of air
>>diver to take the lead.
>>
>>2. Towing with a scooter while gas sharing with a diver whose scooter is
>>broken down
>>
>>
>>So while there are general rules there is no absolutes as the cave or
>>situation or equipment at times will dictate the procedure in some
>>situations.
>>
>>
>>Respectfully yours,
>>Tom Mount
>>CEO IANTD World HQ
>>http://www.iantd.com
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
>>To: Richard Pyle <deepreef@bi*.or*>; kirvine@sa*.ne*
>><kirvine@sa*.ne*>
>>Cc: cavers@ca*.co* <cavers@ca*.co*>; Randylabel@ao*.co*
>><Randylabel@ao*.co*>; rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>;
>>techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>>Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 12:17 PM
>>Subject: gas sharing and restrictions in caves
>>
>>
>>>George
>>>First under all circumstances possible divers are to remain intact
sharing
>>>gas, through restrictions etc. In fact when I and I imagine other cave
>>>instructors teach gas sharing we have students share gas through
>>>restrictions. One of my favorites is the half hitch in Madison. Another
>one
>>>is the restriction in the Gonzalla room tunnel and a third is the
>>>restriction coming out of devils eye. In all these normal gas sharing is
>>>performed right through the restrictions I usually do a few restriceion
>gas
>>>sharing drills with the divers sharing gas at all times.
>>>
>>>
>>>SECOND IN THE EVENT THERE IS SUCH A MAJOR And Complex RESTRICTION
>>>ENCOUNTERED THAT THE DIVERS CANNOT GET THROUGH IT WHILE SHARING GAS, a
>>>situation exist that they must separate in order to get to a point where
>it
>>>is possible to share gas again, the procedure of having the donor allow
>the
>>>out of air diver to get several deep slow breaths and become as calm as
>>>possible before the temporary interruption of the act of gas sharing due
>to
>>>the nature of the MAJOR restriction (remember this is a worse case
>scenario
>>>not the average restriction, this is a very major restriction event,
>making
>>>it virtually impossible to continue sharing gas and still be able to exit
>>>the cave.) it was felt that if one diver had to lead through such a
>>>restriction the donor should, as the out of air diver could relax and see
>>>that the air supply was infront of him/her not behind,
>>>The donor will at the earliest point where it is possible to get the
>second
>>>stage /long hose to the diver signals the out of air diver to come and
get
>>>the gas the diver then swims towards the air supply and gets it.
>>>
>>>Hopefully most divers will not be in areas that have such major complex
>>>restrictions, but the process was developed so that there would be a
>>>predetermined plan of action on how to handle such a drastic situation
>>>should it occur. The other choice would be that in such a situation the
>>>diver out of air goes first which means he begins to exert, then exit the
>>>restriction and have to turn facing back into the restriction to get air,
>>>that is more difficult and stressful than the first option.
>>>
>>>A third approach of course is do not teach anything for this worse case
>>>scenario and if it happens to a dive team let them figure it out on their
>>>own, under stress without having the benefit of a dry rehearsal or
>thoughts
>>>as to how to address such a possibility.
>>>
>>>What prompted the development of this drill was from early blue hole
>>>explorations where we did have restrictions that made it virtually
>>>impossible to share gas through so this drill was introduced for a worse
>>>case scenario, not a routine gas sharing exercise for all restrictions.
>>>
>>>Now for those of you who mistakenly assumed that this was a procedure for
>>>any restriction hopefully you now know better. Maybe you would like to
>>>comment then on
>>>1. Should this remote what if situation be taught
>>>2. Should this type situation not be addressed and just let the divers
who
>>>may face this situation someday figure it out under a real situation
>>instead
>>>of a simple training exercise for a worse case scenario, which is how it
>is
>>>descried. And practiced.
>>>
>>>To summarize all students are taught to remain actively sharing gas (in
an
>>>out of air situation) under any condition where it is possible to do so.
>>>They are then exposed to a worse case scenario where a restriction is so
>>>major and complex that it is impossible to go through it in a gas sharing
>>>mode thus this is a alternative that will work.  Students are also taught
>>if
>>>possible that gas sharing should start with a little gas left in the
>>>cylinders in event of such a situation, but again the most serious
>>situation
>>>we can imagine must also be at least introduced to the student.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Respectfully yours,
>>>Tom Mount
>>>CEO IANTD World HQ
>>>http://www.iantd.com
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Richard Pyle <deepreef@bi*.or*>
>>>To: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
>>>Cc: cavers@ca*.co* <cavers@ca*.co*>; Randylabel@ao*.co*
>>><Randylabel@ao*.co*>; rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>
>>>Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 8:12 AM
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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