George
  You said: You and Mount and everyone else who has been singing the glory
of
>Bill Stone will be extremely embarrassed when the body count soars, and

Show me one post where I have said anything about the glory of or like of
glory of Bill Stone. I have answered post regarding MK 5 when bad info is
out out just as I have on Halcyon in the past.

I have also gave my impressions about the divers I have met who will be on
the project. I do not see it as a point of Glory or no glory. I think the
divers I talked to have good attitudes going into the dive. The
communication I have had with Bill is that there is no pressure on any of
the divers  to do anything other than try and present a good map.

I truly hope that the USDCT has a safe project just as I hope the WKPP
continues to avoid accidents.

Respectfully yours,
Tom Mount
CEO IANTD World HQ
http://www.iantd.com

-----Original Message-----
From: KVI <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
To: Richard Pyle <deepreef@bi*.bi*.or*>
Cc: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>; Rebreather mail list
<rebreather@nw*.co*>; cavers@ca*.co* <cavers@ca*.co*>; "Tom
Mount" <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>; "Jess Armantrout"
<armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; "Dan
Volker" <dlv@ga*.ne*>; LT Dituri <dive4wrk@pi*.co*>
Date: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: WKKP: Love, Hate, CCRs and the USDCT


>Rich - what "dive plans". Be serious here, Bill is: these guys have no
>basis for any plans - they have never done this - they are guessing.
>
>You and I both know ther are fifty tricks to keeping a rebreather alive.
>What I know that Bill Mee knows that you do not know is that this all
>sounds well and good , but try it in a cave. Try it is an cave with bad
>vis and deep water and tell me about it then.
>
>Rich, I do not mind saying that I do this best, I have done it most, I
>have the most success at this, and nobody who knows anything about this
>has the tiniest argument with how I do it, and how WE do it. I have the
>results to back up what I say over a nine year span, nobody else who is
>yapping about this does, and the guys I have trained to do this know it
>and are my most vocal supporters - I have shown them what all of you can
>not see, can not understnad, and will never know.
>
>We are saying that this guy Stone is going to screw up big time. I am
>betting on total failure, multiple deaths, and a complete disaster if
>this guy shows up at all.
>
>There is no excuse now not to show up. The spring tunnels are always
>clear, they are 400 feet inside the entrance, we dove them for three
>years in the winter. The A Tunnel comes and goes, but you have to be
>there when it has its moments. It works like this : the high local water
>table powers the B Tunnel. When the water table to the north drops
>relative to the table to the south, the B Tunnel flows both out the
>entrance and back into the A Tunnel. This is when you can dive A Tunnel.
>That can be at any time, but you have to be there to do it, you can not
>wait and then try to get set up. We could, since we only do one day
>dives anyway, but then we have the most talented , strongest divers in
>cave diving, and we use the right equipment for the job, and can
>decompress in the water.
>
>  We have done 10,000 feet in there on open circuit without setup, the
>whole B Tunnel on a double stage, and the first mile on Tekna scooters.
>This is way more that these guys will ever do with any gear, so they
>need to show up with their "20 mile range scooters" , their rbs or open
>circuit, and give it a try.
>
> Stone's original project had Exley, who did 80% of the 8,000 feet of
>line laying, Skiles, who was responsible for the rest, and they are not
>diving this time. As is the case now, there were no WKPP divers on that
>project for the saem reason there are none now ( Exley later saw the
>light and started diving with me and Gavin, before kiling himself by
>breaking Rule Number One).
>
> Richie, forget the rebreather - thes guys can't even dive weenie cave
>on open circuit - they are all loosers, do nothing, and will never do
>anything anywhere with any equipment if there is water in the cave or if
>the cave goes more than 1800 feet - the distance to the end of Eagles
>Nest, the only deep cave they have ever been in . We have to go to their
>caves to put the end of the line in -that is how bad they are. Why do
>you think that WKPP divers have the end of everything that is not
>sidemount or short?
>
>   You and Mount and everyone else who has been singing the glory of
>Bill Stone will be extremely embarrassed when the body count soars, and
>my personal bet is that somehow you and Mount get blamed for the
>training, although I personally know that Mount would do nothing as
>stupid as what he is going along with here, and that you would not
>either if you knew what you were really talking about ( cave-wise). The
>fact is that both of you are dependent on Stone , and have to
>accommodate this scereaming asshole - I am not, and will not. He is
>interfering with our project, we will never forget it.
>
>   Those who really want to play this game need to get wtih the WKPP -
>the rest need to sell their gear and stay alive, but then I hear Larry
>Green is selling his anyway since Sandra threw his ass out, and the rest
>never had any to begin with .
>
>Richard Pyle wrote:
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Good post.  Have to ask a couple quick questions:
>>
>> > Our problem with the USDCT is not with the rank and file of people with
>> > legitimate aspirations and a desire to share in the opportunity to
explore
>> > spectacular natural wonders.  It is with the mistaken believe
>> > that there is
>> > a magic shortcut to this activity.
>>
>> Out of curiosity, upon what basis do you draw your conclusion that any of
>> the USDCT divers have the "mistaken belive (sic) that there is a magic
>> shortcut to this activity"?  I've heard George and you and others project
>> this perspective upon those divers, but I have not been able to locate
the
>> rationale for this projection.  Could it be another straw man?
>>
>> > You would
>> > think that the
>> > experience of  carrying a dead friend out Huatla would have tempered
his
>> > enthusiasm for frivolous risk and made him much more careful in
>> > is planning
>> > and preparation.
>>
>> And you would think correctly, if you did think this.
>>
>> > When we listen to his ignorant and nonsensical remarks, which
>> > find their way
>> > into the public domain (he will not debate us publicly) we are shocked
at
>> > the blatant stupidity of certain of these hare brained schemes. Using
the
>> > Cis Lunar Mk 5 without adequate open circuit bailout is a fine example
of
>> > this dyslexic reasoning.
>>
>> And this (and what followed in your post) is a fine example of how little
>> you truly comprehend about their dive plans. So, my question to you now
is
>> (and you can answer privately, if you prefer):  what is your source of
>> information on this stuff? Maybe I can help clear things up for you.
>>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> Aloha,
>> Rich
>
>

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