Al, I was looking at the header: 71 doubles or a 151 single. I have no 
idea where in hell you get a 151 single but I will bet that the 71 
doubles would be a cheaper (and better) setup. I have a saying about 
pony's:

-If you don't think you need doubles then you don't need a pony.
-If you think you need a pony then what you need is doubles.

 Jim

On 9/6/98 8:58 PM KybrSose@ao*.co* wrote:

>In a message dated 9/6/98 7:28:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>cobber@ci*.co* writes:
>
>
>>  >On the list I saw some remarks that one should not use doubles if a single
>>  >would do?
>>  
>>  I don't know who told you this, but they should be turned over to the 
>>  stroke police. Use the doubles with an isolation manifold. You won't 
>>  regret it.
>  
>Jim,
>
> Doubles and autonomous redundancy have a place, but singles are obviously 
>the
>best choice for shallow dives, what I define as 0 to 70 ish FSW. 
>
> THere is no reason on earth to dive doubles on a 35 fsw reef type dive. If
>you need redundancy in this situation you use a buddy. 
>
>Now I know this is going to bring all the nor'easter types out of the wood
>work chanting
>
> " you can't rely on  a buddy, you are always diving alone, no matter what,
>bring a pony bottle." 
>
>  Well first I would say if you cant dive in 25 fsw with a single cylinder 
>you
>need to re-evalute your diving skills. 
>
>What are the major hazzards at that depth?
> I say: 
> 1.system failure
>  2."no stop" time < yes I know thats bullshit but bear with me> 
>  3. entanglement, 
>  4. sea life,  
> 5. boat related problems. 
> 
>
> 1.      Remember in a total systems failure at that depth you  GO UP. 
>period.
>Remember to exhale as needed.
>
>  2.  Not even GIII himself could max out no stop time swimming on a 
>single 80
>in 25 fsw, open circuit. I don't believe it is physically possible for 
>anyone.
>
>Don't believe me? look at your tables.  The NU Way tables I have in front of
>me, do not list a no stop number for a single non repetitive dive to that
>depth. These are the same as the NAUI and the YMCA btw.  The PADI table gives
>i think 360 minutes for a single dive at that depth.  Anyone want to go on
>record as being able to do that and more open circuit on a single 80?  
>
>< no stop diving as a concept is bullshit because your body is acting like 
>its
>on a deco dive, every dive. Safety stops are deco stops. However at less than
>critical tissue tensions/ m values,  you can blow and go with little harmful
>effect. If you dont understand why, refer to your open water training 
>manual.>
>
> 3.   For all those who are about to mumble something like " what if you get
>entangled ?" I ask what is the probability of having  reg failure and being
>entangled at the same time? If it happens a lot you need to re-evaluate your
>swim technique,streamline your gear,  and have your regs serviced.    
>
> Additionaly a pony bottle will not cut you out , only a buddy will do that.
>And where is this dive site anyways?  THe only spot I have encountered high
>entanglement hazzard and shallow water is a beach dive next to a fishing 
>pier.
>whats the easy answer for that one? 
>
> Dont dive next to a fishing pier.
>
>4.  Redundant air sources do nothing if your ass gets bitten off by a 
>shark.  
>
>5. Few boat related problems can be solved by a redundant air source. 
>
>
> A more significant problem for me is the outright refusal of most divers to
>use a buddy. 
>
>  I can understand not wanting to just pair up with some unknown yahoo, 
>but it
>seems commonplace in the NorthEast for divers to dive alone. I do it myself
>because the more experienced folks dont want buddies. I am happy to dive with
>a so called "newbie" when ever the opportunity presents itself, but when the
>wreck gets deep no one wants a buddy, saying something like .." buddies are
>just a hazzard, i dont want them to kill me etc" 
>
> I ask , why?  If you consider yourself so good that you can dive alone, why
>dont you think you are good enuff to deal with another person?   
>Especially if
>you rig hogarthian, which is all about helping others via the long hose. 
>
>Why not build a dive partner you can count on? 
>
>As far as a large single and a pony for medium to large type deep dives I
>think thats pure stupidity. You will need at least a third of your original
>gas and then you begin to approach independents, which are a total cluster,
>especially with a long hose, or hoses for you real rocket scientists out
>there. Better to go to manifolded doubles to begin with.
>
>regards,
>
>al marvelli  aka  KybrSose@ao*.co*
>
>PS right now I am committed to diving as a mate on my regular boat, but I
>would consider forming  a partnership committed to using hogarthian concepts
>to explore northeast NY NJ wrecks, starting shallow and working towards more
>advanced stuff. My biggest problem is that I have to set the hook, and on a
>deep dive my time goes before someone else gets in the water.   If you dont
>mind waiting while I set, maybe we could dive together. email me and let's
>talk.
>


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