On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Katherine V. Irvine wrote:

> Bill, what kind of retrograde moronic dumb ass would put the oxygen
> sensors downstream of the scrubber?=20

Umm, Sheila, exactly where else would your enlightened
wisdom suggest putting them?

(this is one situation where I would encourage you to lean on
that strong arm of whatever man is near, because I just
can't WAIT for *this* come-back).

-Will


What kind of blithering idiot would
> teach on a unit like this? Who is the legal advice that tells these
> people that they can not get sued by the British in the US? Who wrote
> that incredibly retarded stuff at the bottom of this? Did all of these
> guys copy the same rebreather, or what? How badly are they going to lose
> when it is found out that they realized all of this too late and ran
> with it anwyay. How many are going to die before the authorities step in
> ?=20
>=20
> Bill Mee wrote:
> >=20
> > Bruce,
> >=20
> > The death parade continues unabated. I wonder what we will find out thi=
s
> > time around?  We do know for certain that another young life has been
> > sacrificed on the altar of socalled "tech" diving.   I think of the
> > grief his family and friends are suffering, and will continue to suffer
> > long after the tragedy is conveniently forgotten.  These thoughts are
> > crowded by the sea of misery shared by the families and loved ones
> > killed recently by rebreathers in the UK or the families and friends of
> > this past years technical diving deaths in West Palm Beach and Ft.
> > Lauderdale.  When the wives and families of the dead write to us and
> > continue to live and relive the grief and horror of these deaths it
> > gnaws deeply at your conscience and sickens you.
> >=20
> > It makes you even more ill to know that the practices and methods which
> > often contributed to these deaths are still in force. This contradicts
> > every norm of civilized behavior and common sense yet we still do not
> > see the training agencies and teachers adopting the proven methods and
> > practices which will ameliorate these tragedies.
> >=20
> > What caused or contributed to the death of this young man?  Will we hea=
r
> > that "deep air" or the suicidal practice of diving with mix in a stage
> > bottle and air in the back caused it?  Will we find out that he breathe=
d
> > the wrong gas from a stage bottle not properly marked with the MOD?
> > Will we find out that this was a cluster caused by convoluted
> > equipment?  Were the usual bearded, pontificating, step aside for the
> > experts, pendulous gutted cast of characters on board the boat, pizza
> > stained Doria shirts and all?
> >=20
> > Who is to blame?  =85. After the last Doria death Irvine wrote the
> > following terse expression of absolute frothing, spitting frustration:
> >=20
> > >The preoccupation with "depth" is another big mistake you are
> > >making in instruction. The way you are teaching decompression is all
> > >wrong. The understanding of the true risks and how to minimize them is
> > >totally missing from tech instruction. The screening is incomplete and
> > >improper. The understanding of this is nil. The rebreather end of the
> > >game is out of control. The rest is ridiculous - look at the track
> > >record.
> >=20
> > When you see who is doing the instruction you are not surprised.  Just
> > to prove my point I have included comments below written by an
> > instructor, who had a fatality occur on his watch in Lake Wazee.  This
> > is so dangerously stupid that you want to garrote the individual who
> > loosed this cretin on the innocent.  Still, this is the tip of the
> > proverbial iceberg.
> >=20
> > Go ahead, argue with us.  Tell us that we are the problem with tech
> > diving. Tell me that people will only listen to this message if we are
> > polite in the delivery. Nonsense. Blind yourself to the tragedy until
> > the shadow of death crosses your path or listen.
> >=20
> > Bill
> >=20
> > Bruce J. Belschner wrote:
> > >
> > > The only correction is that the boat was the SEEKER.
> > >
> > > Nanci LeVake wrote:
> > >
> > > > >From: "LARRY CHARLOT" <lcharlot@jp*.ne*>
> > > >
> > > > >Nanci - this is a clip from the Sacramento Bee (origianally from
> > > > Associated Press wire service).
> > > > >
> > > > >"NANTUCKET, Mass. (August 4, 1998 10:36 p.m. EDT) -- For the third=
 time in
> > > > three months, a diver exploring the wreck site of the Andrea Doria =
has
> > > > died, Coast Guard officials said. A 32-year-old recreational diver =
from the
> > > > charter dive boat Sea Inn surfaced unconscious near the site 46 mil=
es south
> > > > of Nantucket around 4:30 p.m. Tuesday.
> > > > >
> > > > >The boat's crew members administered CPR to the diver until Coast =
Guard
> > > > rescuers could transport him by helicopter to Cape Cod Hospital in =
Hyannis.
> > > > >
> > > > >He was declared dead on arrival, authorities said.
> > > > >
> > > > >The Andrea Doria, a luxury Italian ocean liner which sank more tha=
n 40
> > > > years ago after colliding with a Norwegian freighter, is known as a=
 popular
> > > > site among experienced divers."
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > B2
> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > Bruce J. Belschner
> > > --------------------------------------
> > Subject:
> >         Re: dumb ass
> >   Date:
> >         Tue, 5 Apr 1994 09:19:11 -0400
> >   From:
> >         "Greg Zambeck" <gzambeck@us*.ne*>
> >     To:
> >         <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> >=20
> > Boy George I was wondering how does a customer feel when he spends
> > 3500.00
> > for piece of equipment that he does the consumer product testing on.
> >=20
> > Let's face it george you didn't do the product testing that should be
> > done
> > and you still don't.
> >=20
> > You got caught in you lie when you denied it last year.
> >=20
> > Then to have Tom Mount tell us about his scooter that burner out a moto=
r
> > is
> > 30 minutes, after the switch fell off.
> >=20
> > But the best part was when you started offering your customer's a
> > dielectric oil filled motor.
> >=20
> > Spend 3500.00 just to find out your scooter should have been built with
> > technology that's been around for twenty years.
> >=20
> > Now who feels like the Dumb Ass?
> >=20
> > ----------
> > > From: Katherine V. Irvine <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> > > To: gzambeck@us*.ne*
> > > Cc: techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> > > Subject: dumb ass
> > > Date: Friday, July 31, 1998 5:49 AM
> > >
> > > Advertised "capasity"? How about 18 G's in a cave, dumb ass? BS
> > > coming from a known stroke like you is intolerable. There is stupid, =
and
> > > then ther is ........
> > >
> > >    Greg, YOU are the posterboy problem child of tech diving , the ROO=
T
> > > of the problem: a moron who does nothing and has all the answers, and=
 is
> > > an instructor. Your mental "capasity" is scary. Luckily, you come ont=
o
> > > this list and say some of the stupidest things ever said, hopefully
> > > warning off any potential students before they end up on the bottom o=
f
> > > Lake Wazee. What is your personal body count these days, big guy?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com=
'.
> > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.co=
m'.
> >=20
> > Subject:
> >             The Ultimate is sheer stupidity
> >        Date:
> >             Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:27:32 -0400
> >        From:
> >             "Katherine V. Irvine" <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> > Organization:
> >             DIR
> >          To:
> >             cavers@ca*.co*
> >         CC:
> >             techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >=20
> > The first prize-winning piece of stupidity again goes to the usual
> > suspect. THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG OUT TEHRE - THIS GUY IS A DIVE
> > INSTRUCTOR. He is so stupid that he does not realize why what he is
> > recommending will not work. Can somebody please explain to this guy wha=
t
> > the score is . There is stupid, and then there is.......
> >=20
> > At 09:15 20/07/1998 -0400, "Greg Zambeck"  wrote:
> >=20
> > >Hate to burst your bubble but the dive have a colored tanks, content
> > >stickers, label for the gas mixtures and a green regulator bag on his =
NXT80
> > >and orange regulator bag an the NTX36.  All three gas mixture had diff=
erent
> > >regulator styles to distinguish the mixture in a silt out.  Tape was u=
sed
> > >to mark the tanks after being refilled on the boat.  You need to read =
the
> > >information closer.  Mr. Ramio wasn't on the boat and doesn't know thi=
s
> > >diver, who was meticulous on marking his equipment.
> >=20
> > Sid.Dive@Ib*.Ne*
> > Toronto, Canada
>=20
>=20
>=20
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