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On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 RLatulip@ao*.co* wrote: > In a message dated 8/3/98, 1:10:03 PM, will@tr*.co* writes: > > <<<<Of course we do. That's what the electronics are there for. > > That's why the concept of redundancy is used in electronic rebreathers. > And again, even if all the electronics fail, you can then > fly it in a very efficient semi-closed mode. >>>> > > This is like trying to explain the problems of smoking to a smoker! Sooner or > later it will bite them in the @$$. They just rather believe that it will > never happen to them. That's not what I said. Electronics are *expected* to eventually fail, and there are time-proven ways for dealing with this, right down to reliable methods for flying an electronic rebreather without ANY electronics. The redundancy is there in case the primary systems fail. Parts of ALL rebreather are anticipated to fail. The Halcyon has TWO "depth sensors". But unlike the Halcyon, CCR redundant systems don't step on each other. Tell me, what happens when one of the "depth sensors" sticks at depth, and the vent ratio remains the same as you ascend? Will the other one help any? How would you know this had happened? On an electronic rebreather, if something goes wrong, you will know, because your PO2 will be affected, and there are a whole host of ways to correct the situation. Just about the only thing that is unrecoverable on most CCR's is a total loop flood, but that's the same on a Halcyon, and almost all other rebreathers, with the exception of the Cis Lunar, which even deals gracefully with TLF's. > At the point of trying to keep the CCR units under a > certain cost then a certain amount of compromise has to be given. I don't mind > if you state that you dive a rebreather that uses electronics to monitor your > gas, I do however mind when you attempt to tell me that it is perfect and > electronics never fail. Again, I never said that - hell, I've had several electronics failures. But since they are easy to detect and easy to compensate for, it's not a big deal. One of the big misconceptions about rebreathers is that you don't have much time to react when something like an electronics failure happens, when in fact, you usually have minutes or tens of minutes. Remember: when you take all the electronics off a CCR, you are left with a semi-closed system. > Hell youv'e been told over and over that the potential exist for electronic > failure and I don't believe every failure will result in a successful bailout > as has been proven in the past few weeks. Let's not confuse the issue here - those guys all had very little experience on their units, and probably weren't taught any advanced bailout procedures. For that matter, they obviously hadn't even mastered basic PO2 monitoring techniques, which mystifies me, as it basically goes "Glance at your PO2 monitor every 7-10 minutes at depth, and every couple of minutes when shallow". Now let's say they forgot to turn the electronics on before jumping in, as happened to a couple of Buddy Aspiration users. If they had developed the proper reflexes, they would have noticed this within one minute, gone to SC or OC bailout, and upon reaching the surface, would have probably slapped themselves on the forehead, turned on the electronics, and gone diving. Instead, we have deaths, and near-deaths. Don't blame the car because your 16-year-old smashed into a tree the 8th time he took the car out by himself. And don't blame the kid. Question his driving instructor. -Will -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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