Tom,
That first article was only a general nutrition article, and dealt with the
basis of nutrition needs in a gym or other land based environment--stating
clearly that the most important nutrient is water. . It was not meant to
suggest sport drinks to divers--or even to anyone necessarily, since the
main focus was that each of us needs to drink much more water than we
generally do---and this part of the advice, contines even into the tech
diving arena.
In the diets Terry has prepared for Sandra and me, as competitive cyclists,
there is no such thing as carb loading. We are not even allowed sports
drinks like Ultra fuel or Exceed, lot less garbage products like Gatorade or
Powerade( pure sugar drinks with electrolytes in a hypertonic solution). We
get an amount of complex carb (starchy carb like potatoe or rice) which has
been assigned to us for each of the first 4 meals (person X might get 10
ounces of starchy carb per meal), and the remaining meals we can only have
fibrous carbs, of a similar quantity. Each meal has to have the correct
amount of protein in it, always derived from an animal source.  Plant
protein is bogus. Fat in each meal is kept to an absolute minimum, as fat
contributes too many calories to assist weightloss, and because the presence
of any significant amount of fat in each meal, slows both your digestion and
your metabolic rate, forcing you to wait longer between meals, slowing your
metabolic rate even more, and reducing the amount of protein intake you can
utilize in a day, which is critical for your increase of lean muscle mass,
and recovery from intense workouts. And of course, throughout each day you
MUST guzzle water, always shooting for the 2 gallons minimum.

As Terry goes on into specific diet reccomendations to persons with high
bodyfat levels, my guess is that you will see a relatively low carb,
relatively high protein, and relatively low fat diet, spread over a day with
6 to 7 meals. Since some of us CAN NOT take the time to cook or eat 6 to 7
prepared  meals per day, some of us will have to use certain protein
supplements instead, to replace some of these meals, and these must  have
nutrient ratios close to those prescribed in Terry's diets. Each of these
diets will assume the dieter is working out at the gym----for the very fat,
this is even more important than for the relatively fit. Someone like George
Irvine can practically avoid weight training, because he already has good
muscle development, high muscle density, and very low bodyfat. However, the
extremely high bodyfat divers on this list, will need to workout very
differently from what people like George need, until they attain body fat
levels much closer to 20%.  Those that find themselves at BF's as high as 40
to 50%, will need to get to the gym several days per week, and begin
creating a coloric demand in each muscle, as well as creating a higher
percentage of bodyweight as muscle, and developing the capillary networks in
all primary muscle beds. Bodybuilders have known for years that the best way
for them to lose bodyfat, prior to a show, is by the ideal diet, and
intense, 30 to 45 minute workouts at the gym, different bodyparts each day.
They do NOT believe in cardio for extreme weight loss results. They get
better caloric demand by working every muscle in the body. For high bodyfat
tech divers, cardivascular training will not be your most powerful tool for
weight loss,..... but it will begin to develop a system you will ultimately
need to have fine tuned, once you reach closer to target bodyfat levels.
Balancing these two issues will be another of Terry's issues----better him
than me :-)
Regards,
Dan Volker



>Dan
>
>You need to consider that on deeper dives the work is not as extreme as on
a
>workout. or even a free dive if one is spearfishing or doing other work
>related activities. Therefore the carb loading needs to be less than for a
>balming workout. With hi carbs there is increased insulin and when it drops
>some feel shaky, etc. I think for workouts I would tend to go with Barry
>Sears entern the zone approach. and with diving activities I would keep my
>carns down a little and increase my protein.and fat (cis fat).
>Also many overweight divers will gain additional weight by carb loading
>without having a productive exercise period. Even with a good balance of
>complex carbs this is true. Those wanting to lose weight who have already
>attempted hi carb diet and had them fail(they work for many and put weight
>on others) I for one gain weight on hi carb diets even with all my
activity.
>So many may wish to go to 50 to 60 % protein and split the balance between
>carbs and good cis fats. This works for many people . I recommend to those
>who have already tried standard balanced nutrition dies with hi carb and
low
>fat who find they either do not lose weight or tend to gain weight to
switch
>to a diet while trying to lose weight of 60 to 70 and for the first three
>weeks limit their carbs to 10 to 15%. Once they approach their weight goals
>then increase the carbs to the point they are no longer gaining weight and
>maintain this amount of carbs in their diet. I also think they should drink
>a minimum of 80 ounces of plain old water per day and totally eliminate
soft
>drinks especially diet drinks.
>
>It is a different perspective but one I know for a fact works for hundreds
>of people.
>
>The other thing is to avoid starvation diets as more muscle mass is lost
>than fat So a sound diet and at least 20 minutes a day of exercise is a
safe
>way to lose weight.
>
>For activity levels then get the calories up but bring them up correctly
and
>I think a diver who wants to maximize  their diving capabilities should
>devote at least an hour a day to exercise. It can even be divided into
>segments as long as at least one segment is a 20 to 30 minute aerobic one.
>For those just enjoying dives then the 20 minutes 3 X a week should be a
>minimum. In fact I would be delighted if all divers would do this minimum,
>as many do absolutely  zero exercise other than diving.
>
>The common excuse is time. That always bothers me because in addition to
>developing a healthier body exercise also relieves stress and increase
>productivity therefor more than making up for any time loss devoted to it.
>Most people could get up in the morning one hour earlier and get a workout
>in.
>
>I'm a great believer in supplements and do a ton of them. Patti uses ginger
>supplements as they are excellent in preventing sea sickness.
>The Ma Hung is a herb one should experiment with on land first and then on
>shallower dives prior to its use for deeper diving. I personally would not
>use the Ma Hung when doing deep dives or long moderate depth dives.
>
>Tom
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeremy Downs <dcrco@jp*.ne*>
>To: Dan Volker <dlv@ga*.ne*>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>Cc: freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed* <freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*>;
>rebreather@nw*.co* <rebreather@nw*.co*>
>Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 10:13 PM
>Subject: Re: Diet and Training series for fitness in deep diving, Part one;
>Hydration
>
>
>>Dan,
>>Very good information, I look forward to the future segments. I just feel
I
>>should mention one area in the post should contain more of a warning since
>>the paper is being directed at those training for extreme diving.
>>
>>Awhile back I tried some energy supplements given to me by a student, they
>>worked great, I felt considerably better and experienced a marked
>>improvement in my RMV on several simple reef dives. This prompted me to
>>closely examine these and their interaction in the hyperbaric
>enviroment.The
>>three primary components were Ma Huang (ephedrine), Ginsing & Guarana
>(along
>>with several other minor items).
>>
>>I found little conflict with the Ginsing (George did mention they had
>>negative experience with it but he could produce little facts), it's uses
>>and benefits above water are well published and the inreased blood supply
>to
>>your brain seems advantagous.
>>
>>Guarana is basicly a highly concentrated source of caffine (much higher
>than
>>coffee), Terry mentioned caffine's negative aspects associated with
general
>>health although he was addressing coffee and failed to mention the
>>connection with Guarana, caffine's conflicts with diving (especially
>extreme
>>varients) are well published so I'll refrain from rehashing old news.
>>
>>The big issue is with Ma Huang, this is a very potent herb/drug with many
>>advantages and some signifigant dangers:
>>
>>-Ma Huang is ephedrine which is a commonly used drug in energy pills,
>>metabolism boosters, diet supplements, and asthma drugs in both pill form
>>and in bronchial inhalents, it also has close ties with adreniline
>>production (this is why it is such a powerful metabolism booster and
>gaining
>>popularity with students as a cheap & legal drug).
>>
>>-The drug works by dialating the bronchial passages and concentrating
blood
>>& O2 in the cardio-pulminary regions by constricting capillary regions
>>thereby reducing blood flow to secondary organs and many other tissues
>(this
>>is what helps reduce air consumption but also increases complications with
>>decompression which definitely cancels the benefits of low RMV).
>>
>>-The reduction in blood supply to the digestive system also causes
>>signifigant appetite supression making it very popular in natural diet
>>supplements.
>>
>>-It raises blood pressure a little (more signifigant over extended abuse).
>>
>>-It is a powerful CNS stimulant and can have strong side affects in
>>association with oxygen managment (a real problem in advanced diving
>>activities).
>>
>>-In combination with caffine it is very powerful (this is usually how it
is
>>sold).
>>
>>-It's a natural antihistamine.
>>
>>-Dangerous interactions with some other drugs such as muscle relaxants,
>etc.
>>
>>These supplements have considerable advantages in moderate use at the gym
>>and in other uses but the side affects, although fairly minor above water,
>>are very dangerous in the diving enviroment. I'm not bashing them at all
(I
>>now even occasionally use the TwinLab version as a booster in my longer
3-4
>>hour workouts) but the dangers as they relate to our activities do need to
>>be understood. If somebody decides to use them responsibly they should
>>understand that they need to discontinue their use at least 24 (if not 48)
>>hours before any dive with even minor exposures and at least 12 hours
>after.
>>Anybody considering using these suppliments needs to fully research &
>>understand them before taking a single dosage and they should allways be
in
>>careful moderation.
>>
>>One sidenote, I have experimented a little with it in freediving
situations
>>and it seems to increase time/distance potentials. I believe this is
>related
>>to the decrease in blood flow (and therefore O2 consumption) in less vital
>>tissues and expanded efficiency in the bronchial passages. I believe the
>>dangers of deco & O2 management are basicly nil in this application so
this
>>may have potential as a reasonably safe & effective tool for free divers.
>>
>>Thanks again for the work your doing.
>>Jeremy
>>
>>(I Cc'd this to some other lists as they were involved in some earlier
>>discussions on this subject)
>>
>>
>>
>>At 11:59 AM 3/26/98 -0500, Dan Volker wrote:
>>>In this first installment of articles Terry is contributing for deep
diver
>>>fitness, the most important issue to your nutrition is addressed. This
>will
>>>be followed by some general nutrition based articles, and some  fitness
>>>training, with specific emphasis on increased conditioning for deep
>diving..
>>
>>-----snip------
>>
>>>Next
>>>Nutrition makes an energy carbohydrate powder called Ultimate Orange. It
>too
>>>derives it's carbs from long chained grains sources, but in addition
>>>contains energy stimulants such as Guarana and Ma Huang. It only has 16
>>>grams of carbs per serving - so I mix it double dose and it will really
>wire
>>>you for your workout. Some of the people I use it on get kind of
squirrely
>>>on it, they don't feel so hot, the Ma Huang can do that. If that happens,
>>>discontinue use, unless you are a sadist.
>>>
>>
>
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