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Roger Steele,
You are exactly as Mr. Clark says. You are a liar and an unrepentant
"shill" for the TDI organization, your denials notwithstanding. Your
first contributions to this list were either verbatim or excerpted from
information passed on to you through one of TDI's assigns.
You barged onto this forum demanding that "We" the list members go out
and perform "statistical research" for you to prove something everyone on
this list knows to be true. You then had the unmitigated gall to threaten
us with tortious actions should the inevitable and obvious response not
be to your liking. This, in and of itself was very suspicious,
particularly coming from a "socalled" introductory cave diver. There are
few things more aggravating and insulting then being requested to prove
the obvious. Let me state it for you again in simple English:
5 out of 8 Technical Diving deaths during 1997 were TDI. PLEASE EXPLAIN
TO ALL OF US ON THIS LIST WHAT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS IS.
You have quite obviously avoided addressing this issue and this blatant
omission raises the suspicions of everyone that you are nothing more than
a "shill" for the TDI organization. You think that these people are your
friends? They will discard you like wastepaper in a heartbeat, if it
suits them.
We all have a long memory and will not forget your insults and your
obvious alliance with the single worst influence in diving today. You had
best to continue to enjoy playing elevator with your lift bag in a
refrigerated cesspool because you can forget about diving anything other
than the usual stroke pits. The word is out on you Roger.
Yes Roger, you really have "raised the level of discourse" on this forum.
You have once again called attention to (5 out of 8) one of the greatest
tragedies in technical diving.
There may still be some hope for you yet, if you were to come clean and
tell us the truth about what your real agenda is or was.
Still waiting for the other shoe to drop�.
Bob Major
BELOW ARE EXCERPTS FROM ROGER STEELE'S POSTS
COMPILED BY JOHN CLARK FROM THE ARCHIVES OF TECHDIVER AND CAVERS
From: "roger steele" <rogersteele@ho*.co*>
Subject: Fwd: Re: DeepTech
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:45:34 CST
I did not receive a reply from anyone on the list concerning the
questions below. I am sure, since many people on this list seem to be
convinced of the unsafe teaching practices of TDI, that there must be
strong statistical proof to support these conclusions. Please respond
at your leisure.
-------------
On the other hand, if it cannot be proven, then all
of these claims are unsubstantiated by facts and therefore should be
considered mere opinion and heresay. I would like responses that are
concerned with providing actual statistics.
-----------
My question stands: Is there
a statistical correlation between scuba diving deaths and TDI
certification? If so, please respond with factual information from a
reputable agency that compiles such figures.
------
TDI certified? Of the ones that are certified, (if there are any) how
many of these deaths can you directly attribute to TDI's unsafe diving
instuction? Please respond with factual statistics.
------
My question concerns several comments on
this list about TDI unsafe diving instruction in general. This is a
very serious claim that some people are making. It is my intention to
discover the facts that back up these claims. To my knowledge, no one
has been able to do that as of yet, which leads me to believe that these
comments are unsubstantiated by relevant facts and therefore should be
ignored until these facts can be presented in a coherent manner. As I
------
Can you prove that TDI is practicing
unsafe diving instruction in its classes. I have asked you to provide
me with factual information that would show us all that TDI is directly
responsible for any deaths related to scuba diving, not just deep air.
You have failed to provide this information. I can only assume from
this that you do not have such information. From this one can only
conclude that your comments are based on heresay and opinion, and should
be ignored until relevant information is provided. It seems strange to
me that I cannot find in any of your responses a mention of DAN, a
-------
I suggest that you
contact DAN, as a starting point, in gathering statistical information
by which you can correlate scuba diving deaths with TDI certification.
-------
Therefore, you must take it upon yourself to prove your
claims. I come to you seeking knowledge on this subject. It
------
If you are going to claim criminal negligence, you are going to have to
provide facts to support this. This is a very dangerous statement to
make without facts to back it up. It amazes me that people are
perfectly willing to make such claims in the public forum without the
request facts, especially when it concerns actions that are supposedly
resulting in the deaths of human beings. Liable is not a funny issue. I
just hope that people on the list do not find this out the hard way,
right or wrong.
--------
One of my intentions in joining this list is
to raise the discourse to a level that is worthy of the sport that we
all love. Diving, whether in its technical format or sport format, is
-----
If these statistics are non-existent or impossible to get to, what are
you basing your claims upon? I do not know whether these statistics
exist or not. That is why I am asking you. In fact, if you have known
this all along, why are you just now making this claim? Have you
inquired to DAN for these statistics? I doubt it. You have a very
difficult problem to surmount now. By this statement you have
-----
oint taken. The information that I am requesting is probably difficult
to get. Analysis of the information will be even more difficult.
----
For myself, I really do not see the difference
between what Gilliam printed in his magazine and what George has posted
on this list, other than the fact that Gilliam did not print profanity.
-----
Maybe he would fair better if he would
stop sending posts about internet tactics and start focusing on diving
information and techniques.
-----
Based on our last conversation I
don't think you really want to engage me in rational argumentation. O
----
) It is an excellent place to pratice lift bag ascents, due to
the milky nature of the visibility and the depth. For instance, doing a
lift bag ascent in the ocean with high visibility is easy after
accomplishing this several times in cold, milky water. I normall
----
HUH???? Do you think I'm Brett Gilliam the TDI demon, or Roger the
cave student of Joe Odom living in Huntsville AL. Maybe I'm Fred
Flintstone, or better yet, George Irvine incognito.
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