Mailing List Archive Mailing List Archive
Thanks for the input. I now understand the "hotmail" issue. I am very sorry that Jim has had to put up with this type of Garbage. It does not belong here in this forum. One of my intentions in joining this list is to raise the discourse to a level that is worthy of the sport that we all love. Diving, whether in its technical format or sport format, is something that I have truly come to love and enjoy over the years. I am constantly searching for knowledge and information. I realize that I have alot to learn. I feel that some people on this list have not come to the same realization. Once they do, we will all benefit by it. I was shocked 3 weeks ago when I subscribed to the list and found a picture of someones rear. This is ridiculous. This belongs in the bathroom, not in a forum for intellectual debate over issues that concern all divers, whatever side they may be on. I followed certain e-mail strands and became convinced that several people do not have the knowledge that they claim they have. Once they realize this, we will all learn something. My bet is that alot of people on the list would rather debate issues in this manner, rather than constantly using ad hominem arguments that never have, and never will, prove anything. George Irvine and Brett Gilliam both have some pretty serious dive credentials, far more than I have. It stands to reason that we all could learn something from both of them. However, this does not mean that we should whole heartedley believe everything that they say. I don't. >From kybrsose@ao*.co* Thu Jan 22 10:39:32 1998 >From: KybrSose <KybrSose@ao*.co*> >Message-ID: <732bf20.34c78e95@ao*.co*> >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:23:14 EST >To: rogersteele@ho*.co* >Subject: Re: Deeptech >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) >X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) > >Roger, > >I am beginning to think you are not a troll,rather just someone who does not >realize that a hotmail account is usually used by someone trying to screw with >the lists. There is a history of hotmail users doing all sorts of nasty >things to techdiver and cavers list members, beginning with lies and e-mail >bombs and ending with criminal actions like fraud and telephonic harrasment of >list members at their homes and places of employment. Mr. Cobb was the target >of some particularly bad attacks because he created a web site about trimix. > >Technically you are correct about the deep air death list; it is not the >exclusive domain of TDI. TDI did not cause all those deaths directly. However >the list is a symbol of a flawed practice, deep air diving. By deep air diving >we mean diving air beyond accepted safe ppo2 and ppn2 levels. We do not mean >PADI/NAUI deep although there is evdience that no dive below 100fsw/ffw should >be attempted on air due to the damage incurred in the micro circulatory >systems of humans during such exposures. > > TDI and specifically its president, Bret Gillam, have continued to promote >deep air diving as safe and fun despite published evidence to the contrary. >NASA, US Navy, and oil company data show deep air to be physiologically >dangerous. Additionally anecdotal reports from the field show us that divers >deep on air are so impaired that they cannot perform the simplest of tasks and >often commit minor errors that lead to their deaths. These events are often >covered up due to the insurance ramafications. > >The deep air death list is a list of people who have died diving deep air. >They did not die as a result of the direct effect of the gas but rather the >narcosis caused them to commit minor errors thats lead to their deaths. TDI >remains the only major training agency to claim deep air is safe and fun. TDI >is the only agency that has attempted smear campaigns to maintain a flawed and >lethal course of instruction. > >What about PSA? you ask. Hal Wats officla position that his supervised deep >air dives are to impress upon the student the need for trimix. What about >IANTD? they changed their standards in the wake of last summers death toll. >Deep air is an option but not a requirement. Instructors are now encouraged >not to teach the deep air. >What about PADI? 130 fsw limit. NAUI? 130 fsw limit. And both those dont >recommend even that, they say avoid deep altogether. > >Furthermore TDI has a history of not enforcing standards and sending cards not >earned to persons not qualified to own them. Many TDI rebreather instructors >have never seen a breather much less dived one. > >What about Sheck Exsley? It is known that he dove air during the descent >portion of his final dive. It is believed that isobaric counter diffusion may >cause narcosis problems during descents with gas switches, like the one Sheck >did. There is anedoctal evidence from the field to suggest that it can take >three to ten minutes for the effect of the mixed gas to over come the narcosis >induced by deep air on descent. Thus he is listed among the deep air >casualties. > >A full accounting of the causes of various accidents is difficult due to the >various factors involved; no one wants to believe that their loved one died >doing something stupid that was easily preventable. Furthermore no one wants >their insurance to refuse to pay for a preventable accident. I think many >underwater "heart attacks" are a result of sympathy by officals. > >No wants to have to search for a dead diver, or talk about him. But there is >no other place to look for errors in diving technique. This is the motivation >behind Mr. George Irvine, who is actually easy to talk to, once you get used >the style of his message. In what other sport do the best of the best readily >debate with the newbies?? > >I hope this was helpful and you are not unduly deterred from the lists by the >introduction you have had to them, the hotmail address really raises an >eyebrow. > >Cheers, > >Al Marvelli aka KybrSose@ao*.co* > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Navigate by Author:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject:
[Previous]
[Next]
[Subject Search Index]
[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]
[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]