Is DAN tracking fatalities based on most recent certification agency? Is
this information available? 

I appologize for my lack of reasearch in the DAN materials, but what are
the statistical comparisions between "technical divers" and
"recreational divers" where technical diving is defined as diving
activity that occurs in an overhead environment. An overhead environment
is defined as any situation where the diver will be unable to surface,
i.e. Cave, Wreck, Deco Liability.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	roger steele [SMTP:rogersteele@ho*.co*]
> Sent:	Wednesday, January 21, 1998 11:37 AM
> To:	techdiver@aquanaut.com
> Subject:	Re: Re: DeepTech
> 
> I have received three responses.  Thank you.  However, it would seem 
> that these responses are more concerned with my existence as a real 
> person, rather than answering the two questions that I have put
> forward.  
> One person refered to me as "Brett".  I'm assuming he is refering to 
> Brett Gilliam.  At any rate, this is not the issue.  What is the issue
> 
> is the death rate of divers that can be attributed to TDI unsafe
> diving 
> instruction.  This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, if 
> these claims are to be taken seriously in the public eye.  If it can
> be 
> proven that there is a statistical correlation between TDI
> certification 
> and scuba diving fatalities, then we all need to take a look at taking
> 
> legal measures against this training organization, in order to stop 
> unnecessary deaths.  On the other hand, if it cannot be proven, then
> all 
> of these claims are unsubstantiated by facts and therefore should be 
> considered mere opinion and heresay.  I would like responses that are 
> concerned with providing actual statistics.  
> 
> If you would like to reach me and discuss these issues by means other 
> than e-mail, you can at the following address and phone number:
> 
> Roger Steele   NSS#44318
> (office:)   601 Beacon Parkway West Suite 106
>             Birmingham, AL.  35209
> 
> (office:)   205-942-2522  Ex109
>             1-800-610-2522  Ex109
> 
> I think the above information should put to rest my existence as an 
> actual person.  You can contact me directly or by voicemail at the two
> 
> above numbers.  I would appreciate responses that are concerned with 
> factual information.
> 
> >From armantrout@wo*.at*.ne* Wed Jan 21 10:15:35 1998
> >Received: from default ([12.67.66.184]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net
> >          (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA21377;
> >          Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:15:09 +0000
> >From: "Jesse Armantrout" <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
> >To: "roger steele" <rogersteele@ho*.co*>,
> >	<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Subject: Re: Re: DeepTech
> >Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:16:12 -0800
> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> >X-Priority: 3
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >Message-ID: <19980121181507.AAA21377@de*>
> >
> >Roger, if indeed that is your real name, which we all doubt due to
> the
> >hotmail account which most of us would rarely, if ever, respond to:
> >
> >It (TDI) is a dead issue, no pun intended.  Well, maybe a little pun 
> was
> >intened.
> >
> >Now, go away, please.
> >
> >Trout
> >
> >----------
> >> From: roger steele <rogersteele@ho*.co*>
> >> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> Subject: Fwd: Re: DeepTech
> >> Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 5:45 AM
> >> 
> >> I did not receive a reply from anyone on the list concerning the 
> >> questions below.  I am sure, since many people on this list seem to
> 
> be 
> >> convinced of the unsafe teaching practices of TDI, that there must
> be 
> >> strong statistical proof to support these conclusions.  Please 
> respond 
> >> at your leisure.
> >> 
> >> >From owner-techdiver@aquanaut.com Fri Jan 16 08:36:23 1998
> >> >Received: (mail@lo*)
> >> >	by bighorn.terra.net (8.8.6/jr3.8) for
> >> >	id JAA29479; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:50:57 -0500
> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >Errors-To: owner-techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> >Received: from bighorn.terra.net (root@lo*)
> >> >	by bighorn.terra.net (8.8.6/jr3.8) with EXEC for techdiver
> >> >	id JAA27261; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:27:32 -0500
> >> >Received: from hotmail.com (F70.hotmail.com [207.82.250.156])
> >> >	by bighorn.terra.net (8.8.6/jr3.8) with SMTP for 
> >> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >> >	id JAA27251; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:27:31 -0500
> >> >Received: (qmail 3612 invoked by uid 0); 16 Jan 1998 14:26:58
> -0000
> >> >Message-ID: <19980116142658.3611.qmail@ho*.co*>
> >> >Received: from 206.26.190.166 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> >> >	Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:26:57 PST
> >> >X-Originating-IP: [206.26.190.166]
> >> >From: "roger steele" <rogersteele@ho*.co*>
> >> >To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> >Cc: Tek_Dive@co*.co*
> >> >Subject: Re: DeepTech
> >> >Content-Type: text/plain
> >> >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:26:57 CST
> >> >
> >> >I would like to know the statistical corellation between Deep Air 
> >> Deaths 
> >> >and TDI certified divers in 1996 and 1997?   In other words, how 
> many 
> >> >people died diving deep on air in 1996 and '97 who were certified
> by 
> >> >TDI?
> >> >
> >> >Also, of the deaths associated with scuba diving in this same time
> 
> >> >frame, what is the percentage of this number that can be
> associated 
> >> with 
> >> >Deep Air?? (Deaths occuring below 130ft on air?)
> >> >
> >> >>From owner-techdiver@aquanaut.com Thu Jan 15 19:35:21 1998
> >> >>Received: (mail@lo*)
> >> >>	by bighorn.terra.net (8.8.6/jr3.8) for
> >> >>	id VAA26543; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:09:21 -0500
> >> >>Precedence: bulk
> >> >>Errors-To: owner-techdiver@aquanaut.com
> >> >>Received: from bighorn.terra.net (root@lo*)
> >> >>	by bighorn.terra.net (8.8.6/jr3.8) with EXEC for techdiver
> >> >>	id VAA25778; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:01:09 -0500
> >> >>Message-Id: <199801160201.VAA25770@bi*.te*.ne*>
> >> >>Received: from [206.246.204.137] ([206.246.204.137] (may be 
> forged))
> >> >>	by bighorn.terra.net (8.8.6/jr3.8) with ESMTP for 
> >> ><techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >> >>	id VAA25770; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:01:08 -0500
> >> >>Received: from 206.246.204.142 by 206.246.204.137
> >> >>     with SMTP (QuickMail Pro Server for MacOS 1.0.2); 15 JAN 98 
> >> >21:00:55 UT
> >> >>Subject: DeepTech
> >> >>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 21:01:07 -0500
> >> >>x-sender: cobber@ma*.ci*.co*
> >> >>x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997
> >> >>From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >> >>To: "Tech Diver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>, "Cavers List" 
> >> ><cavers@ge*.co*>
> >> >>Mime-Version: 1.0
> >> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >> >>
> >> >><In my ongoing effort to save my fellow divers money, here is yet
> 
> >> >another 
> >> >>review of a lame dive magazine>
> >> >>
> >> >>Much to my surprise when I got home today what was in my mailbox?
> A 
> >> >copy 
> >> >>of issue 10 of DeepTech. For some mysterious reason my
> subscription 
> >> >seems 
> >> >>to have started up again. I don't know wether to laugh or cry.
> But 
> >> this 
> >> >>is fortuitous because now I can save you guy's $9.95 (or however 
> much 
> >> >>your local dive shop is nailing you for).
> >> >>
> >> >>Let's see. In the letter section there are 4 letters from Brett 
> >> >Gilliams 
> >> >>Brown Nose Club telling him what a GOD he is for devoting an
> entire 
> >> >issue 
> >> >>to slandering George Irvine. One guy, Kevin J. Freeland, does not
> 
> only 
> >> >>kiss Gilliams butt, but he crawls up it and gives Bretts
> intestines 
> a 
> >> >new 
> >> >>white-wash job. He has something to do with Gulf Coast Dive Pros,
> 
> >> >>probably an establishment to avoid.
> >> >>
> >> >>Mike Kravit's letter shows up and Gilliam gives one of his
> classic 
> >> cock 
> >> >>and bull responces, and I quote: 
> >> >>
> >> >>"It's not about advocating unsafe diving practices (which none of
> 
> us 
> >> >do); 
> >> >>it's about how persons choose to conduct themselves in society"
> >> >>
> >> >>So let me get this straight, it does not matter that all these
> TDI 
> >> >people 
> >> >>died doing TDI sanctioned deep air dives, it's about the fact
> that 
> >> they 
> >> >>did not get on the internet and offend people? Well, now there's
> a 
> >> >twist.
> >> >>
> >> >>"Personally, Idon't spend a minute of my day wasting my time on 
> him, 
> >> >I've 
> >> >>simply got better things to do"
> >> >>
> >> >>Anyone who has spent any time on these list knows what a 
> black-faced 
> >> >lie 
> >> >>this is. I believe the Gilliam does not spend a waking hour
> without 
> >> >>plotting on how to fuck with G.
> >> >>
> >> >>Well, enough of that bullshit. Moving on we have an article by 
> Guess 
> >> >Who 
> >> >>on, drumroll please, decompression sickness. For a minute there I
> 
> >> >thought 
> >> >>I was reading Dive Training, this article would fit in perfectly.
> 
> >> Some 
> >> >>nuggets from this intense, fact filled treatise:
> >> >>
> >> >>"Contributory Factors To DCS- Depth, Time, Rate of release (dive 
> >> >profile)"
> >> >>
> >> >>Well, I'll be danged, I didn't know that! The rest of the article
> 
> >> looks 
> >> >>like a re-write of a PADI manual. I think this is called
> "filler"?
> >> >>
> >> >>Moving right along.. Exercise during decompression? Egghead 
> >> >mumbo-jumbo, 
> >> >>Doppler says yes, but can you doppler slow tissues? Don't think
> so. 
> >> >hmmmm.
> >> >>
> >> >>Portable chambers- there's about 4 of them.
> >> >>
> >> >>Florida's Wreck Valley- Another informative fluff piece by HFS, 
> go's 
> >> >into 
> >> >>what great buddies he and Tom Mount are, must have been written 
> before 
> >> >>the big falling out... Yup, says he was finishing up photos for 
> Mixed 
> >> >Gas 
> >> >>Diving, pub. '93. Boy, blowing some dust off the old reject pile,
> 
> >> >Brett?
> >> >>
> >> >>Ad's, ad's from the usual suspects.
> >> >>
> >> >>Next a 100 word art on side mounts by Brett's best friend, Lamar 
> >> Hires. 
> >> >>Take a transpak and clip some stage bottles on the side. There ya
> 
> go!
> >> >>
> >> >>Now this is ironic, a blue hole expedition article. Spooky.
> >> >>
> >> >>Finally an interview with Lamar Hires, as I'm not a caver, I
> won't 
> >> >>comment on this one, but it was pretty boaring.
> >> >>
> >> >>Very few ad's in this issue. Could it be that companies are a bit
> 
> >> >nervous 
> >> >>being associated with with magazines devoted to deep air and 
> personal 
> >> >>vendetas? Time will tell...
> >> >>
> >> >>There you go, I've just saved you guys another $10.00.
> >> >>
> >> >>  Jim
> >> >>
> >> >> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> Learn About Trimix At 
> http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>--
> >> >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to 
> >> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to 
> >> >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >______________________________________________________
> >> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >> >--
> >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to 
> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to 
> >> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ______________________________________________________
> >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >> --
> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to 
> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to 
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]