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From: "Steve Schinke" <tekdive@ho*.co*>
To: ststev@un*.co*
Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com, caver@ww*.ge*.co*
Subject: Re: The correct way to ICE dive
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 20:41:54 PST
sean,
I see teathers as a huge possible risk of entangle ment and limit the 
dive more than necessary.  Risk management.. can be in the eye of the 
beholder.  I believe that teathering is nessesary for commercial work 
SAR work and moving water diving.  I also believe that Ice diving should 
never be done in moving water.  As none of the lakes that we ice dive 
have currents then teathers seem to be not needed.  by using a reel as 
in cave/wreck diving you have a continuous line to the surfaceand thus 
back to the entrance hole.  you spoke of zero vis.  Usually (at least 
the sites we ice dive (ALBERTA LAKES)) the visibility is much much 
better in the winter time especially on a brite and sunny day.  We take 
lights but have never had to use them.  As fare as following a small 
diameter line in open water as oppossed to a confined space (just try 
closing your eyes and reeling it in)its not difficult.  I also believe 
that the diver is more efficient at layin line and taking it up than the 
tender.  Lets face it a reel isn't that hard to run.  As far as 
communication over the last few years we have been using AGA masks with 
full com gear(keeps the face much warmer and allows for much better 
communication than rope pulls if you so desire.

The ice should always be cut in one piece and pushed under the ice.  The 
key thing is to anchor the triangle at a minimum of two points.  this 
prevents the ice from moving into the hole by itself but also allows one 
to responsible close the hole(and still mark it properly)after the dive 
is done

As far as surface personal go Keeping the hole free of ice is a comfort 
thing.  in the time of an ice dive the ice forming in the hole is so 
minimal as to negligable.  tho keep people away from the hole as a diver 
you should ensure that it is adaquately marked.  To assist entry and 
exit.  a rope ladder works great as well(i have entered many small 
cenotes via a ladder without surface support.)

I feel that there are many improvements that can be made in the ice 
diving communities without compromising safety.  By using common sence 
ant the proper gear and gas management rules there should never be any 
problems unless it is with trhe divers ability ar previous training

safe diving

STEVE
>
>Steve, first off, do you mean to say that you dive with only the two of 
you? (ie. no surface 
>support?)  Surface support is a necessary part of any ice dive, 
although I don't think you need to 
>have five people, necessarily.  It is comforting to know that the hole 
will be kept clear for your 
>return, and that you have some assistance in getting out of the water 
and your gear, especially on 
>long dives when you want to reduce the risk of a DCS hit.  Tethers are 
a method of risk management 
>based on the possible lack of visibility.  Most ice diving is in open 
water as opposed to confined 
>passages, as would be encountered in a cave or wreck.  Imagine yourself 
diving under ice in zero 
>vis and finding your way to the surface (and the hole) in open water by 
a small diameter free 
>floating line.  This scenario is further complicated by currents or 
line entanglements.  Using a 
>tether provides you with line pull communication with the surface, as 
well as a guide back to the 
>hole that is easy to follow.  As well, you don't have to deal with 
laying line or taking it in 
>during the dive, as your tender does this for you.  There is no need 
for multiple tender lines, as 
>each diver should be connected to the lead diver by a buddy line, and 
may communicate with the same 
>line pull signals.  I remember a report of two ice divers who cut their 
hole in a single piece and 
>couldn't lift it out so they pushed it down and underneath the adjacent 
ice, then went diving 
>without surface support.  During the course of their dive the piece 
shifted and plugged up the 
>hole.  There is no reason for events like this to occur.
>
>-Sean
>
>
>On Fri, 09 Jan 1998 11:45:42 PST, Steve Schinke wrote:
>
>>i recently had a debate about the correct way to ice dive and i 
thought 
>>i would see what this lists reaction was.  We live in northwestern 
>>canada and have ice coverd lakes for about eight months of the year so 
>>unless one has alot of travel dollars you have to leard to ice dive to 
>>get wet.  
>>
>>This person was in support of some of the large diving factions 
>>standards involving a five person team requiring the divers to be 
>>teathered and a teathered safety diver plus two line tenders.  
>>
>>my argument was that this seemed to be a little over excessive.  I 
>>argued that Ice should be dove like any other  overhead environment 
>>using reels, and gas management principles, and that teathering 
>>unnesessary.  The divers should be competant enough with there skills 
>>that being roped together and to the surface is ridiculous.(perhaps 
>>eight dives doesn't classify you as a competent advanced diver.....)
>>
>>usually the way my buddy and i dive is with reels and ice screws in a 
>>two man team using thirds.  We also carry min of two lights although 
it 
>>is usually unnesesary to use them.  the only drawback is thaqt cutting 
>>the hole takes more effort.  I was wondering how other people dove ice 
>>as our tech community is rather isolated and small up here.
>>
>>STEVE SCHINKE
>>
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>
>
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