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Phil:
I will take a moment to explain the IANTD program to you and at what
level you should enter into the program if you so chose. Of course if
you did your training with me after the fruitcake remark, I would bust
your chops with a few more stress management drills. But assure you, you
would learn a lot.
First of all in regard to your training if you do have the background
you have stated you should enter into the trimix program based on
equivalent experience. I assume from your statements that you have
hundreds of trimix dives which is rare due to the availability of gas
and dive sights for gas dives, but possible and many of us do have more
than that. I would assume that you are cave certified is that true??
Based on you providing proof of the above assumptions,If you came to me
to do your training and thius is more than within standards, You would
need to do the technical EANx lectures and written exam (also the
written exam from advanced deep air if not cave certified as it deals
with equipment config, narcosis gas matching dive planning etc.) and
water skills from these course which can be completed in conjunction
with the trimix course. There would be one 3 hour confined water
session, two(same day) air or EANx dive to demonstrate proficiency in
trimix diving techniques and skills (whatever depth 130 feet and a dive
to 60 feet for skill demonstration to me, before I have confidence in
you to do a deeper dive with you in a training situtation) and three
(effective Jan 1, 1998 used to be 2) trimix dives. Plus of course all
the theory and written exam.
Now to address the issues in your post IANTD = FRUITCAKE
It is IANTDs goal to develop confident, relaxed, knowledgeable and
competent divers thus our programs are rather intense. If you are
looking for a shortcut or give away card IANTD is not for you.
Response to Points from your post
1. Intermediate trimix was developed for divers emerging into deeper
diving (not those who already do it) it allows them to develop deep
diving skills and experience without the narcosis exposure associated
with deep air dives. The course requires a 3 hour confined water
session, 5 (not 4) air dives to depths not to exceed 130 feet, during
this part of the training all the skills normally addressed in the
advanced deep air and technical EANx courses is accomplished. These are
skills that IANTD believes to be mandated for safe diving and handling
stress and emergencies in the real world of technical diving. All the
theory of these courses is also covered plus of course skills and theory
specific to the intermediate trimix program.
With your experience why were you even inquiring about the intermediate
trimix program??
2. You compare air depths that one can do in an IANTD program to TDI
depths. The last time I looked TDI had 200 feet with absolute maximum
air depth of 220 feet. That may or may not have changed since the copy
of standards that I received.
Effective Jan 1 1998
IANTD advanced deep air may be taught in depths between 131 feet and 160
feet. (Used to be 150 to 160)
Technical EANx may be taught in depths between 100 feet and 170 feet
(used to be 140 to 180)
3. There is no course labeled technical deep air it was dropped at the
end of 1995.
4. On your statement on PO2 's the maximum allowable bottom mix PO2
regardless of gas mixture in IANTD Technical courses is 1.4 so your
point is not factual. For deco 1.6 is allowed
5. Anyone teaching a trimix course must be diving on trimix they also
must abide by the 1.4 bottom mix and 1.6 deco mix standards.
All depths have a plus or minus 10 feet built into the limits, for
liability purposes if some accidentally drops slightly deeper than the
course depth. This is not to allow deeper dives but to provide
protection from a liability standpoint.
We encourage all people who are evolving into deeper diving to do so
through the intermediate Trimix Avenue. At the same time we do offer
what we consider to be a needed service to those who insist on deep air
training (usually these courses are the eye openers to most for a reason
to dive mix) and in areas of the world where it is not possible or
economically feasible to use helium.
The deptd in these courses fit into other areas of the world standards
that use 50 meters(170 approx) as a max depth.
As for your MAD HATTER comment. On the initial standards I was
instrumental in their development along with the IANTD BOD and
committees of then the most experienced technical divers around from
cave divers to wreck divers to mix divers (what few there were then) to
research divers and physiologist. Today all standards are reviewed each
year by our international BOA, Licensees and BOD and changes are
implemented based on the results of these reviews. It is not a perfect
system but it is a fair system.
Regardless of whether you approve, agree with or disagree with I hope
you now have a better understanding of the IANTD program.
Tom Mount
I
ANTD = Fruitcake ?
Date:
Mon, 29 Dec 97 21:02:57 +0000
From:
philljohnson@ju*.co* (Phillip A Johnson)
To:
cavers@ww*.ge*.co*
CC:
techdiver@aquanaut.com
I recently decided to get legitimately certified in some of the latest
technical diving specialties and I asked my local dive store operator
for
a rundown on the IANTD offering. In order to be able to get trimix gas
fills from the shop nearest my usual North Carolina offshore charter
boat
I will be required to show the technical IANTD trimix cert in order to
get fills of 17/45 trimix. (I usually blow air over the remaining mix
for progressively shallower dives on a long offshore trip) After hearing
all the horror stories about TDI I figured that IANTD is my best bet.
The TDI courses look like they were written by Mother Teresa next to
this
IANTD garbage. Who wrote these course offerings anyway, the Mad Hatter?
Clearly the insurance company for IANTD has no earthly idea as to the
nature of this nuttiness.
Four air dives for an intermediate trimix course? Give me a break what
sort of complete silliness is this? What are we supposed to do ? all
four dives in one day? I hope they provide wheelchairs for this course.
What's the story on these nitrox courses with higher ppo2 and eads than
the trimix course. If you can't kill him with the narcosis then you
kill
em with the oxtox? Nitrox to 170ft. Nobody is this stupid? This
clearly
is a severe case of reckless endangerment. And the deep air. So IANTD
does their deep air 10 ft shallower than TDI. Who do these guys think
they are kidding. Moderate deep air, Extended Deep air, Technical deep
air, Deeper Deep Air, Extended moderate long range deep air. Please
give
me some advice on what I should do. I have made 100s of trimix dives on
my own and do not do any deep air diving anymore. In fact the whole
reason I dive trimix is because I firmly believe that air is the wrong
gas for any depth. I am sick of getting bent and feeling like crap after
doing air dives. I am totally convinced that it is physically
impossible
to properly decompress from a deep air dive. I will will eat my diploma
if you can prove to me that deep air diving does not cause permanent and
subtle brain damage. All of my dives over 90fsw are now on hyperoxic
or hypoxic trimix depending on the depth. This is absolute craziness
that I have to subject myself to the physical damage and narcosis of air
just to get trimix certified. It is even worse that I have to expose
myself to nitrox far beyond it's intended depth in order to take the
trimix course. It appears to me that I have to take something like nine
courses (3: basic, intermediate and technical x 3 ( air, nitrox and
trimix) to get to where I already am. Frankly, I would rather just pay
them the equivalent money and audit the courses. The last thing I want
is for some instructor who is blasted on air to be teaching me trimix.
My dive shop tells me that OSHA regulations require them to be deep
diving on air in order to take the technical trimix course. This is
beyond the pale craziness. Is there some way to get grandfathered in?
Where does this all end? If any of you guys can shed some light on this
and help me find a way out of this looking glass mondo bizarro I would
really appreciate it.
Thanks again.
Phil Johnson
Phillip A Johnson wrote:
>
> I recently decided to get legitimately certified in some of the latest
> technical diving specialties and I asked my local dive store operator for
> a rundown on the IANTD offering. In order to be able to get trimix gas
> fills from the shop nearest my usual North Carolina offshore charter boat
> I will be required to show the technical IANTD trimix cert in order to
> get fills of 17/45 trimix. (I usually blow air over the remaining mix
> for progressively shallower dives on a long offshore trip) After hearing
> all the horror stories about TDI I figured that IANTD is my best bet.
> The TDI courses look like they were written by Mother Teresa next to this
> IANTD garbage. Who wrote these course offerings anyway, the Mad Hatter?
> Clearly the insurance company for IANTD has no earthly idea as to the
> nature of this nuttiness.
>
> Four air dives for an intermediate trimix course? Give me a break what
> sort of complete silliness is this? What are we supposed to do ? all
> four dives in one day? I hope they provide wheelchairs for this course.
> What's the story on these nitrox courses with higher ppo2 and eads than
> the trimix course. If you can't kill him with the narcosis then you kill
> em with the oxtox? Nitrox to 170ft. Nobody is this stupid? This clearly
> is a severe case of reckless endangerment. And the deep air. So IANTD
> does their deep air 10 ft shallower than TDI. Who do these guys think
> they are kidding. Moderate deep air, Extended Deep air, Technical deep
> air, Deeper Deep Air, Extended moderate long range deep air. Please give
> me some advice on what I should do. I have made 100s of trimix dives on
> my own and do not do any deep air diving anymore. In fact the whole
> reason I dive trimix is because I firmly believe that air is the wrong
> gas for any depth. I am sick of getting bent and feeling like crap after
> doing air dives. I am totally convinced that it is physically impossible
> to properly decompress from a deep air dive. I will will eat my diploma
> if you can prove to me that deep air diving does not cause permanent and
> subtle brain damage. All of my dives over 90fsw are now on hyperoxic
> or hypoxic trimix depending on the depth. This is absolute craziness
> that I have to subject myself to the physical damage and narcosis of air
> just to get trimix certified. It is even worse that I have to expose
> myself to nitrox far beyond it's intended depth in order to take the
> trimix course. It appears to me that I have to take something like nine
> courses (3: basic, intermediate and technical x 3 ( air, nitrox and
> trimix) to get to where I already am. Frankly, I would rather just pay
> them the equivalent money and audit the courses. The last thing I want
> is for some instructor who is blasted on air to be teaching me trimix.
> My dive shop tells me that OSHA regulations require them to be deep
> diving on air in order to take the technical trimix course. This is
> beyond the pale craziness. Is there some way to get grandfathered in?
>
> Where does this all end? If any of you guys can shed some light on this
> and help me find a way out of this looking glass mondo bizarro I would
> really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Phil Johnson
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