Jeremy

I don't see how the V-weight has any bearing on the matter.

Putting wrecking kit aside for a moment, one obtains neutral buoyancy by   
adding sufficient weight to be neutral with dumped suit and wings and   
near empty cylinders.  This will depend on what equipment is being used   
(stroke or otherwise).  However, neutral is neutral (apart from thick   
neoprene suits whose buoyancy characteristics (and thermal insulation)   
change with depth).

I dive a compressed DUI suit, have Ali stages which are slightly positive   
when empty.  I add a V-weight.  Before I sold my steel stages, I dived   
less weight than Alis as steels remain negative when empty.  (These   
stages carried deco gas and never dropped and so can be considered part   
of the weighting system just as the SS backplate and steel twinset are.)

Typically I would dive 3 Kg less in f.w. vs. s.w.

For those that are interested below is a table of Cylinder weights (and a   
few other bits) in sea water.  The "Empty" figures were measured.  The   
"Full" by calculating (air is 1.15 Kg per 1000 litres, so I was told and   
this matches a test measurement I made).

Dave

The steels are Fabers and the Alis are Luxfors.  Weights include   
regulator(s) - 0.8 Kg in water.

Litres  Description  Full (Kg) Empty (Kg)
      -  Backplate    2.5         2.5
   2.0  Ali (Est)    0.6         0.1
   2.0  Steel        1.7         1.2
   3.0  Steel (Est)  2.9         2.1
   7.0  Steel        3.7         1.8
   8.3  Ali          2.7         0.7
  10.0  Steel        4.6         1.9
  10.4  Al Bottom    2.3         (0.5)
  10.4  Aluminium    2.3         (0.5)
  12.2  Steel        5.4         2.1
  24.4  Steel        9.8         3.3
  25.0  Steel       10.3         3.6
      - Hammer       1.7         1.7
      - Crowbar      1.1         1.1
      - Torch        2.7         2.7

BTW, 1 Kg = 2.2 lb.

 ----------
From:  Jeremy Downs[SMTP:dcrco@jp*.ne*]
Sent:  17 December 1997 12:09
To:  David Shimell (shimell); Paul Kaufman; techdiver
Subject:  RE: Dry Suit Diving.

This might be the sort of exception I was talking about. Now if your   
still
throwing a v-weight in there then you should lose some or all of that and
get back to a better control situation.

At 01:47 PM 12/17/97 GMT, David Shimell (shimell) wrote:
>
>
>I found diving on the suit was fine for single cylinder diving.  When I   
    

>went to a twinset, 2 stages and argon, we are looking at about 10 Kg (22   
    

>lb) of weight due to the gas.  (Weighting should be neutral for near
>empty cylinders.)  Add to this some wrecking tackle 3Kg (6 lb) which one   
    

>must assume gets lost.  This means that we are talking about a lot of
>additional gas that has to be put in the suit at the start of the dive   
to
>obtain neutral buoyancy.  I find gas migration to be a problem in these   
    

>circumstances and so use the suit for comfort and wings for buoyancy.
>
>David Shimell
>Project Manager, Sequent Computer Systems Ltd, Weybridge, UK
>Email: shimell@se*.co*
>
> ----------
>From:  owner-techdiver[SMTP:owner-techdiver@aquanaut.com]
>Sent:  17 December 1997 03:13
>To:  Paul Kaufman; techdiver
>Subject:  Re: Dry Suit Diving.
>
>When properly weighted & adjusted (this is the key) I allways have
>simpler
>and better control when using only the suit and completely ignoring my   
    

>wings
>during the dive. With this method your bouyancy is basicly automatic
>(with
>shell suits) and you have less items to worry about. Everybody I have
>talked
>into trying this has not gone back and their bouyancy control and
>awareness
>(one less distraction) has improved.
>
>I even had a former student last month come up and ask me about how to   
    

>use a
>shell suit he had rented for the weekend so I briefed him on this
>technique
>and went with him on his first dive to make sure everything went ok.   
This
>was his first time ever in a drysuit and only about his 20th dive ever.   
    

>I'm
>not overexaggerating at all here but within fifteen minutes his control   
    

>was
>as good as most seasoned divers I know (with or without a drysuit).
>
>I know George & Jim both don't advise this method but I hope they give   
it
>a
>real try (this is about the only thing that I don't agree with them on).   
    

>I
>really can't say the same for neoprene suits since I have never tried   
one
>and their characteristics are different (although two converts have been
>neoprene users).
>
>At 02:08 PM 12/12/97 EST, Paul Kaufman wrote:
>>Eric,
>>
>>I always leave the auto-deflate on my TLS-350 set almost fully open
>(least
>resistance).
>>Just add enough air to your suit to take off the squeeze.  Then use   
your
>wings to adjust
>>your buoyancy.  You have to remember that you are now dealing with two
>systems, but it
>>works better this way than trying to make all your buoyancy adjustments
>with the suit.
>>
>>Take care,
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>--
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>
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