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Fox, James wrote: > > What does it have to do with diving? RMC reply; The diving industry must continue to promote safety from within, especially if we are truly concerned about BIG BROTHER, as you indicate. We currently lack a common forum for promotion of safety. I beleive we also fail at several warning issues similar to the FAILURE TO ADEQUATELY WARN in regards to placement of children in front of airbags. The government is not left to be the only regulatory committee in safety of automobile's, the manufacturers ALWAYS know the real concerns well in advance of the feds. I did not receive adequate warning in this regard until two months after I traded in my 1995 Explorer (late 1996). The relationship most valid relative to the dive industry is our failure to inform divers that ballast placement location is the common denominator responsible for acheiving a SINGLE RELIABLE HEADS UP SURFACE POSITION. SCUBAPRO has known this for years and only uses the 6 pound negative steel 72 to meet the US NAVY test requirement, however they fail to inform the recreational consumer of the complete reversal of surface positioning when using an insufficeintly negative tank (80 aluminum). They do offer a tank mounted counterweight as an option, but they do not instruct on how to maximize it's use or how it may impact the divers ability to survive an unconscious or distressing event. Robert Stoss, the former scuba products division manager and VP of Scubapro had assisted in development of a tank warnig decal and poster system that was springing off of the Responsible Diver Program when he was let go at the peak of his carreer. Stoss was on the DEMA board, very well liked by all, an a singled out member wishing to increase diver safety via information exchange. His program would have started the negation of the disclaimer printed inside the divers vest as the primary means of litigation defense in some 20-30 surface drownings a year. The auto makers were worried about the first six, then twenty, then thirty fatalities before they decided to properly and abundantly inform the public of a simple remedy. We must retrain our motivation to be offensive instead of defensive, if we wish to reduce accidents and fatalities in our fragile industry. Uncle Sam does not have the resources or the desire to regulate diving, however, they do want to see the members of the indusrty form a plan of self regulation for safety improvements. DAN indicates that more than half of our industry fatalities terminate at the surface. Some 10-30% of those may well have survived if they had been floating face up instead of face down. Face up simply allows for SELF RESCUE or more time for assisted rescue. BMAP (ballast mediated airway protection) is now a NAUI specialty course and is included in some OW1 training programs. BMAP allows the diver to understand exactly how ballast placement effects surface position reliability as well as at depth performance. Visit www.selfrescue.com for more info on this subject. All instructors are encouraged to seek free course outlines form LArry Coyne (LCoyne4763@ao*.co*) or by fax (954-462-6115). Don't forget to throw away the deep air programs as well. Drunk driving is socially unacceptable and so should narced diving practices. We have all done plenty of both, should we try to learn from this? I have found diving trimix to be infinitely more productive and obviously safer. We simply need to develop the infastructure to make it available, we do that by demand. Speak up people, and tell your industry how to improve, status quo should never be acceptable until we reach Sam Jackson's 1996 DEMA challenge of ZERO fatalities (no reduction and no plan as of yet, just more free jeeps). I have included some airbag info for comparison and a web site address dedicated to the advancement of diver safety via information exchange. Could someone please post this to other dive related mail lists as well. Robert M. Carmichael > The systems in the cars were desinged to the goverment standards. and they > should be held liable.There was warning up to one year before the first bag > was sold in a us vehicle. The was many Goverment hearings to show thaat the > bags as speced by the US,Canada,and Germany were to powerful. The Government > didn't by it. > > If this bs goes on with the diving You Me GIIII and all others that enjoy > diving will be diving to there standards. I live in Mich an they are trying > to stop all diving onto wrecks that there is a chance that is human remains. > If the standards do not change and there continues to be uncalled for deaths > ( Training deaths ) and the like then we will all be diving with BIG BROTHER. > > > At 07:00 PM 10/12/97 +0000, you wrote: > >Sounds like I hit a sensitive subject. Would you likle to set the story > >straight? I am interested in the facts. Lack of adequate warning in fair > >time is an obvious issue with airbags, what is you point? > > > >RMC > > > > > >Fox, James wrote: > >> > >> You have some very good things to say here > >> but you have mis quoted the deal with the air bag deal. > >> stick with the facts that you know about. > >> and you know nothing about the auto air bag problems. > >> > >> At 11:59 AM 10/9/97 +0000, you wrote: > >> >CAPTZEROOO@ao*.co* wrote: > >> >(snip) > >> >But you are doing the entire > >> >> diving comunity a serious diservice by prompting wives to sue, & > testifying > >> >> against the instructors & shops. To do so would be inviting Gov. > regulation > >> >> into our sport. The Gov will not make a distinction between your doing it > >> >> right and strokes. They will paint the whole diving comunitty with the > same > >> >> brush, right or wrong. > >> > > >> >Valid concerns, but you have missed several points. > >> > > >> >The government is not interested in regulating recreational activities, > maybe > >> >taxing but not regulating. They are very interested in industry regulating > >> themselves > >> >(see CPSC director Ann Brown's message). A year ago in Miami the USCG held > >> the first > >> >meeting with the dive industry to assist in developing a plan to reduce > >> dive related > >> >casulaties by 20% the first year. This is as much regulating as the > >> government is > >> >capable and desirous of. So far the only responses have been "reduction of > >> shallow > >> >water drowning by gear balancing-Dr. William Courtney (see > >> selfrescue.com),financial > >> >loss prevention suggestions by the PADI group, and "SAFE AS BOWLING-except > >> for the > >> >fatalitie's!, presentation's by DAN". > >> > > >> >Our industry used to be self regulated, we are now "NON-REGULATED". TDI > >> gets away with > >> >whatever they want because the only remaining policing system in place is > >> that of the > >> >plaintiff's attorney and the resulting litigation that takes loads of time > >> and a > >> >serious investment on behalf of the PA and the surving family. > >> > > >> >The second real tragedy is that we are the ones that pay for TDI's cheating > >> >of the system and narcotic leadership in the long run. The entire > instructional > >> >staff will be responsible(for years to come)for the lack of standards and > >> leadership > >> >being dealt the unknowing public by these greedy anti-leaders. A properly > >> managed > >> >suit would provide for the final end to the farse of "GOOD DEEP ON AIR". > >> The dead > >> >diver's are an indicator for the need to change. The unfortunate suit is a > >> part of > >> >that equation only because our industry has no other means of governing > >> itself. > >> >DEMA is a marketing system only now, we resigned the equipment secretariate > >> to ANSI > >> >when the real DEMA ceased. The RSTC (alledged training secreteriate to > >> ANSI) will > >> >not allow outsiders (non-Cronies) to introduce new or corrective ideas. The > >> folks > >> >that attend the RSTC meetings beleive they are there to "self-regulate". > >> They are > >> >only present to fill the room and provide body count for a pre-arranged > >> agenda. > >> > > >> >The family of the victim must make good of this situation by creating > >> positive change > >> >that may serve to protect others from being mislead. It took the automotive > >> industry > >> >over five years (and many deaths) and several very serious suits to > develop an > >> >effective program for warning folks not to place small bodies in front of > >> an airbag. > >> >The first 6 fatalities occured in 1991. The real turning point was when a > >> very wealthy mother > >> >had the expereince of watching the decapitation of her own child from a > simple > >> >fender bender in the parking lot of a mall. The car companies knew well in > >> advance > >> >of that and we all know deep on air is drunk diving. Who's job is it to > >> lead this > >> >industry? > >> >(snip) > >> > > >> >Even if you shut down > >> >> the slob agencies, there will still be individuals diving deep on air. > Once > >> >> you go into court you will be opening Pandora's box. > >> > > >> >Opening the box for dive industry leaders to no longer assume they will not > >> be held > >> >accountable for breaking what should be a obvious rule. Reduction of > >> fatalities > >> >should be a primary goal of our industry leaders. Fatalities constantly, > >> negatively > >> >impact our indusrty.When is the last time ANY of our alledged leaders > >> suggested > >> >a change to reduce diver accidents? > >> > > >> >(snip) > >> > > >> > you stand a chance of > >> >> pulling us all down. with them. > >> > > >> >Who's pulling who? > >> >> > >> >> Zero > >> >-- > >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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