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> From: Carl Heinzl <cgh@ma*.ai*.mi*.ed*>
> > The liability comes in to play when people ( certainly not you
> >) who do this type of gas blending are to cheap to buy the Oxygen
> >analyser and never analyse the mix before diving it. Sooner or later
>
> I know of no one who mixes their own who does not own an analyzer.
Carl,
How many people do you know who mix their own gas, 20 or
30? I doubt you know 1% of all the people who "home brew".
I am sure George Irvine or Tom Mount could tell you lots of
stories of people mixing without analysers.
> Your arguments are specious at best and by making them in this manner,
> you must either a) require tanks to be fully drained before you fill
> them which in and of itself is a bad idea
Ok Mr. Gas Blender Expert, Explain to us why this is a bad
idea. I drain almost every tank before I fill it with nitrox
or trimix. That way I know exactly what is in the tank and the
customer gets what they asked for!
> or b) do an O2 analysis on
> every tank BEFORE you fill it. Of course this does not guarantee that
> there is no He in there, only that it is normoxic.
>
> >they make a mistake, too much Oxygen, and then a next of kin is trying
> >to sue the store that air topped the tanks that killed the diver. Kevin
>
> Baloney. That's just like saying that they'll sue you for diving too
> deep on an air fill that you provided. Since that's the case you better
> shut down your fill station.
It's like this. The dead divers tank says 15/60/25 but the
contense is found to be 9/60/31 after the body is recovered.
Widow says,"dive store owner knew that he was making trimix
when he air topped the tank". Store owner is liable since he had no
formalized training in producing the mix that led to the diver's death.
Store owner must convince a jury that he had no idea what was
in the diver's tank before he filled it. Store owner or widow, who do
you think the jury will side with?
>
> >before you try and tell me that all these "garage mix wizards" have
> >Oxygen analysers, remember these are the same people who will not pay
> >the extra $2 per cylinder for medical grade Oxygen and use ballon grade
>
> Medical grade O2 is unnecessary. ABO is in fact potentially a better
> gas to use due to the reduction in moisture content. ABO is what I have
> seen used most commonly. Now, are you goin to try to tell me that ABO
> isn't satisfactory...
If ABO refers to aviation grade, It is perfectly acceptable.
My point is that the difference between welding grade and
medical grade Oxygen is less than 10 cents per tank of nitrox
on average. If you can't handle 10 cents more per tank, you
should go back to playing cards!
>
> >Helium instead of 99.97%. Face the facts. Most of these people are to
> >cheap to buy the mixes and figure they can do it cheaper themselfs.
>
> Too cheap isnt tthe write wording. How about not wanting to get ripped
> off. I've seen a few places that charge through the nose for O2 or
> Nitrox - try $0.40/cu ft of O2 - or $0.10/cu ft of nitrox - that is just
> fucking ridiculous, especially since their cost on it is at best 1/4 of
> that.
Hey stupid! It's not the $1to $2 of Oxygen in the $8 nitrox fill. It's
the
$10,000 to $25,000 of compressors, filtration, storage banks,
etc. that make it an $8 nitrox fill!
> Now, you want to talk about He! Since dive stores feel the need
> to gouge so heavily it's no wonder that people are mixing it themselves.
> In fact, a great deal of the time those pepole mixing it at home are
> MORE qualified to do it than the $6.00/hr dive store jockey who has (or
> in some cases has NOT) taken a gas blending course.
>
> >These people have a copy of gas mixing tables, a bottle of Helium, a
> >bottle of Oxygen, and a $10 pressure gauge. To them, an Oxygen analyser
> >is a $150 to $300 waste of money. They will tell you," I know how to
> >read the table and the pressure gauge, and besides I don't make
> >mistakes."
>
> Sorry, I have just not found that to be the case. IF what you said was
> true I woudl expect MANY more people to be kicking over than are. In
> fact, if dive stores would provide mix at a reasonable cost I'd argue
> that more people would be diving mix rather than deep air and so would
> be less likely to tox or do something stupid and drown. This is an area
> that shops just want to rake in as much profit as possible while whining
> that divers can do it themselves at home just as well as they can.
Why don't you stop whining, open your own store, and sell
trimix for your cost Then everybody will be happy till you go
broke.
>
> > If you believe that a dive store couldn't be sued by the next of
> >kin over a bad mix that the store air topped, then I have a ship
> >wreck that I would like to sell you!
>
> If you're running a good operation you can still be sued by anyone for
> anything, however, the more professionally you run your shop the better
> you will be situated to defend against an unreasonable lawsuit.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! THAT'S WHY I DON'T AIR TOP
"MICKEY MOUSE HOME BREW"!
Ted
Ted Green (owner)
Tidewater Aquatics (Dive Store)
Salisbury Maryland USA
TDI IT #029
SSI MI #178
The world contains but three types of people:
1. Those who make things happen.
2. Those who watch things happen.
3. Those who wonder what happened.
--
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