Sorry if you dont want this.


Although he had before, Suarez did not breathe air at 300  on
his LAST dive. He breathed his buddys trimix. This was
a different mix than his. The Suarez accident was not a deep air death it
was a dive that was not planned well and executed even worse. The tank
profile (5 tanks - 3 on back & 2 on side)  and the fact that he swam at
depth, because his scooter couldn't go deep enuf, probably made him
overexert himself(why you need to train) probably causing him to think
that his tank was empty(all mix tanks had enuf on the surface for gas at
depth). Then the scotter than got stuck in the thrust mode. This happened
during a dramatic depth change. The accident seems to have been a lung
problem. Ed had suffered a sub pnemothorax in the late 60's.





On Tue, 7 Oct 1997, Sean T. Stevenson wrote:D

> On Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:16:47 -0500 (CDT), EE Atikkan  wrote:
> 
> >You wrote: 
> >>
> >>OK, Esat, enogh being nice - you do now know what the f you are 
> >talking
> >>about, and until you do your first cave dive, your opinion about the
> >>effects of narcosis in a cave is garbage, just like your information 
> >
> >I don't C any initials after my name.
> >I avoid argumentun ad homineum
> >I don't teach deep air or advocate it
> >I just like that facts be set out & discussed from all possible aspects
> >
> >Now if we are going to get scurrilous & not face the facts, but sling 
> >feces w/o a basis, then there really is no reason to continue the 
> >discussion.
> >
> >It is disappointing, nay disgusting that anytime there is a 
> >counterpoint, discussion ceases and it becomes name calling, a tyrade.
> >
> >The fact remains - advocating heliox at the 140-160 range may not have 
> >the broadest application in scuba diving.  It is possible that given 
> >the special circumstances that cave divers deal with tere may be 
> >grounds to prefer it and require that all participants be trained such. 
> >
> >However one has to truly demonstrate the need for it in any other 
> >environment.  
> >
> >Is it possible that your tenets may not extrapolate to other 
> >environments w/o modification?
> >
> >I think you should think about that.
> >Incidentally, don't worry about being nice - we old guys can handle it
> >
> >C U @ sushi.
> >
> >Esat Atikkan
> 
> 
> Esat, take a look at the last statements you made above, and think for
> a minute.  Somebody should not have to die in order to create the
> statistics to support the fact that deep air is a bad idea.  This is
> like arguing that drinking to excess is perfectly okay, and that it is
> only the people who get in their cars and kill people that need use
> some restraint in drinking.  The facts remain that:
> 
> 1)  Most people dive air because it is cheap.
> 
> 2)  Most people who use air in the 30m + range do so because their
> training programs taught them that it was okay to do so, and were only
> taught to use alternate gases when the ppo2 on air became too high.
> 
> 3)  Air is a narcotic mixture at any depth other than sea level.
> 
> 4)  There is conclusive evidence to support the fact that judgement is
> impaired on air at depth, as well as motor control and logical process.
> 
> 5)  The reason that the anti deep air movement seems to be emanating
> solely from the cave diving community is that these people have more
> logistical concerns in planning these dives, and have kept better
> records as a result, which they can use to compare profiles, incidents
> and diver behaviours to, and the results have been unarguable.
> 
> 6)  Diving is an inherently hazardous activity, and by utilizing a
> narcotic gas mixture you are essentially playing with dice as to
> whether or not there will be a problem, analogous the the person who
> has a few pints at the local watering hole, "feels fine", and elects to
> drive home.  Sure, most fatal accidents due to impaired drivers are
> from those in gross violation of the legal blood alcohol limit, but how
> many people have drifted subtly around in their lane, and perhaps
> parked a few inches too far from the curb, without becoming a
> statistic.  I don't drink and drive, and I don't dive deep on air.
> 
> 7)  This stigma may definitely be extrapolated to other environments. 
> I do not dive in caves, but I dive in cold water, open water, in
> wrecks, under ice, heavy currents, zero vis, high potential entrapment
> areas, contaminated water, time critical search and rescue ops, body
> recoveries, etc.  Under NO circumstances would I consider doing any of
> these dives on a narcotic mixture, because my life is worth more to me
> than the cost of a little common sense.

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