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Garry, is there a Macy's near you ? When you can explain any of the
abject stupidity that you suggested to everyone one both of these lists,
I will come there and give you a kiss in their window - on the ass.*

  that is expain it and have it make any sense - not possible.

 By the way, when discussiong us, which yoiu are not doing here, we do
not dive "Hogarthian" at all - we do it right. - G

Garry Gillette wrote:
> 
> On 27th Jan. 1997 Todd Leonard wrote (main points, some deletions. The
> underlining is mine)
> 
> In this note it sounds (more because of what you don't say than
> because of what you say) like you're saying either that Hogarthian
> configuration has reached "perfection" and should not continue to
> evolve, or that only a certain elite and small group are capable
> of the thought process necessary to facilitate its evolution.
> Well, I disagree.  Listening to the best
> is a good start, but it is not sufficient.
> ..........................
> 
> Now, to my points of contention.  I do not believe that Hogarthian
> configuration has reached "perfection".  More accurately, I do not
> believe that it is the "perfect" or "final" implementation of the
> Hogarthian principles.  Somewhere out there is a great idea waiting
> patiently for one of us to find it and integrate it with the other
> aspects of Hogarthian config.  I believe this because it's consistent
> with history, and because doing so fails on the side of safety.  If
> there is no such improvement out there, the worst that can happen is
> we spend time looking for something that isn't there (still not a
> "waste" of time, in my opinion).  If it IS out there, then looking
> for it is the best way to find it and the only way to recognize it.
> 
> OK, so who is "qualified" to look for these improvements?  Everybody!
> ...............
> 
> So, on a more practical level, who is really going to put the effort
> into the analysis necessary to bring it to a sound conclusion?  Not
> everybody, unfortunately, and this is where the "Don't dive with
> strokes" concept comes into play.  I think it's easier to recognize
> a "non-stroke" than a "stroke".  Look for someone never satisfied
> with the status quo, who is willing to learn ALWAYS, and who is
> willing to spend the time and energy to be as good as they know how
> to be.  That is who we should want to dive with, and also who we
> should struggle to become.
> ...................
> 
> p.s.s. I don't like the way "Don't listen to strokes" is worded.  It
>        really means "Don't believe strokes", which is true.  We should
>        listen to everybody, though.  Examining a good counter-example
>        is one good way to learn.  It also helps avoid the failure mode
>        where you thought you were squelching a stroke, but you actually
>        missed out on listening to an ex-stroke or to a non-stroke with
>        poor communication skills.
> 
> My comments:-
> You expressed my opinions exactly Todd and did a far more articulate job of it
> than I did.
> In hindsight I guess a different approach was warranted on my behalf (and
> others too).
> 
> I still believe the underlying principle of what I was trying to say (as you
> have expressed above) to be right
> But you have found a more conciliatory way of putting it.
> 
> Garry
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