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Best thing I've read on this subject is an article in Issue 5, spring 97 of Immersed, _Rethinking the Hit_ by Andrea Zaferes. It is written very clearly and has a list of 16 references for you to peruse. Jim On 5/30/97 10:51 PM William M. Smithers wrote: > >I'm sure this is true, but would you have any references in this area, >particularly with regard to ppN2 level vs. exposure >times, preferably correlated with observed tissue damage, degree >and localization of inflammation, and repetetive exposure? If the >effect is significant under realistic operating conditions, we'd all like to >factor this into our models, after all. > >-Will > >On Fri, 30 May 1997, Jim Cobb wrote: > >> I think you guys are missing a main point of Georges- high pp's nitrogen >> cause the blood cells to become rigid, this creates microcirculatory >> damage. This in turn triggers the immune system, causing inflammation, >> cutting off the circulation needed for off gassing. >> >> Sure we might be able to function narced, but what about the permanent >> physical damage you accumulate on deep air? Have you determined that the >> resulting nerve damage and bone necrosis is nothing to fret about? >> >> Jim >> >> On 5/30/97 11:45 AM Ocean Diving Inc. wrote: >> >> >To George and all under his spell, >> > TYPICAL cave dives involve a greater deal of overhead to contend with >> >during the ascent phase which lessens the PN2 of any given mix. Some caves >> >however do not limit your vertical ability to ascend and most ocean dives >> >do not either. I haven't been in a wreck yet that I couldn't go up from >> >within 15 seconds. Remember that most of the Deep Air dives that you made >> >with me were less than 30 minutes at a depth that averaged 20' shallower >> >than planned. Despite the conservative approach to planning and the EAD of >> >130' within 30 seconds of ascent do you really feel that divers should >> >not exceed a 130' EAD when going to 180' or 190' because they may not >> >poses the adaptive abilities that we acquired from continuous exposures to >> >the same? I would love for every diver that wants to poke his nose a >> >little deeper than 130' to take TRIMIX lessons, but for most the expenses >> >would rule them out. The ratio of dives made on air in the OCEANS (from >> >130' to 190') to dives made in caves on air(from 130' to 190') are >> >probably 10,000 : 1.... (IMHO) ...OK maybe 5,000 :1 Still using your >> >accident report stats I'll bet that makes Ocean diving appear safer than >> >Cave diving. I'll bet it will remain that way till were dead and gone. >> >Seems all the funerals are for those who took air beyond our recommend >> >limits. Lighten up on the issue and let's get incompetent on a mix at the >> >bar. See you in the deco zone. >> >Sempre Deep, >> >Capt. Jim >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: gmirvine@sa*.ne* [SMTP:gmirvine@sa*.ne*] >> >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 1997 2:22 PM >> >To: TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne* >> >Cc: cavers@ge*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com >> >Subject: Standards, Deep Air, Narcotic Mixes - Three Wedings and a few >> >Funerals >> > >> >> >> >> ---Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> >> This >> >> > has produced a great safety record. > >> >> > Shaun you should stay witin your limits and if they are less than >> >> those >> >> > we advocate for trimix then by all means do not attempt to become a >> >> mix >> >> > diver with IANTD >> >> > Tom >> >> > >> >------- >> > >> > Tom, I am incompetent on air at 160, so are you saying that I >> >could not get an IANTD "trimix" "certification"? Also, why not just >> >recommend 160 aed instead of 130? Why do you recommend less aed in cave >> >than ocean if you do not feel there is impairment? >> > >> > If this is so safe, then why are a disproportionate number of >> >cave divng accidents amoung trained divers below 130 , and why are a >> >disproportionate number of ocean diving accidents below 130? >> > >> > PADI long ago spotted the correllation without knowing why, >> >just like the Surgeon General spotted the link bewteen cirgaette smoking >> >and cancer, without knowing why. In 1997 the absolute reason was >> >established, and some day soon the absolute reason for narcosis will be >> >established. In the meantime, obvious is obvious, and the dichotomy in >> >your standards alone imply an awareness of this and a denial at the same >> >time. >> > >> > The concept that there is such a thing as "ability to handle >> >impairment" is fundamentallly flawed. Your "standards" need changing, in >> >my opinion. - G >> >-- >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> >Send list subscription requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > >> >-- >> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> >Send list subscription requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> Send list subscription requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send list subscription requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send list subscription requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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