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Hello all, The following posting includes some questions from Carl Heinzl about Cis-Lunar rebreathers, and the replies from Richard Nordstrom (I'm posting it with permission from both of them). Aloha, Rich ******************************************************** On Cis-Lunar Rebreathers: On Mon, 11 Jul 1994, Carl G Heinzl wrote: > I am a little disappointed that things are not progressing [with > Cis-Lunar] as fast as I would have liked, but, perhaps I'm a little too > impatient. If other companies do get units to market much sooner than > CIS-Lunar, however, they will have lost a great deal of credibility and > much of the pent up demand will be taken up by these other companies, > especially if the recent report on techdiver of the Carmellan/Oceanic > units being in the 3000 plus pounds ($4500US) price range are real > and they do become available in Sept/Oct '94 as advertised. Rich Nordstrom Replies: I doubt that Oceanic will be in full production. Perhaps I will be wrong, but historically they have pulled the same stuff over the years. Their working systems have not had the field testing of Cis-Lunar's and they presently only have one working unit, that's really only a modified MK-15. All of us at Cis-Lunar are disappointed in the progress, but certainly not in our credibility. This is a start up boot strapped company. No one should expect miracles monthly. Our product is the most tested and field evaluated system no matter who arrives on the scene with a unit (short of the USN's MK-16) . "No wine before its time" is corny, but when the MK-5P is fully unveiled there will not be one unit on the market that will match its robustness, reliabilty, redundancy, ease of use, flexibility or integrated features. Pardon the sales talk, but it's true. Proof is in the pudding. Carl Heinzel: > Please forgive the randomness of the following questions. They are > off the top of my head. I was going to organize them a little better, > and actually wrote this last week, however if I don't send it off now, > I'll probably let it just slip away. I did read your followup from > late Friday, btw. Answer to questions: > > I am curious as to the exact configuration that is currently available. > Specifically. > > #1) Are the units still fully redundant? He seemed to indicate that this > was no longer the case at the Sea Rovers. Rich Nordstrom: 1. Yes they are redundant in the sense of multiple processors, sensors and back up systems. The old concept or description originally referred to two (2) complete units linked (each unit had multiple redundancy). In short, yes there is substantial redundancy. > #2) What are the size bottles that he's currently using on the units? > How configurable is this? Rich Nordstrom: 2. It's an inborad and outboard gas configuration capability. Off board can be as large as you want or can carry. On boar gas is 13.4 ft3 oxygen and 30 ft3 breathable inert gas mix. > #3) I have heard that this unit is "field reconfigurable". I would like > more information on exactly what this means. Is this essentially > in lieu of having different models? Rich Nordstrom: 3. "Field Configuarble is the present MK-4P design. It allows conversion the dual exploration model, MK-4R. It also breaks down in very neat packages for ease of transportation. The MK-5P will be modular, but not as flexible in configuring. > #4) Is the projected price still $15k (I have recently seen 12-15k quoted > as the price). Rich Nordstrom: 4. $15K is the going price plus about (approx) $2,500 instruction. > #5) Are there any provision for the computer to be removed from the unit > (i.e. so it can follow a "diver" as opposed to a rebreather unit) > *or* can it be reset so a "new" diver can begin diving with it > and not pay the penalty of having logged a previous dive? Similarly, > can the computer be connected to a PC and have the vital information > downloaded? Rich Nordstrom: 5. Yes. The computer will provide a great deal of flexibilty. More information later. I don't want to give too many details away. > #6) In relation to #5, will they have a simulator running on a PC available > for dive planning? Rich Nordstrom: 6. Yes. > #7) What is the projected "maximum underwater time" on one of these units. > This should be independant of depth, correct? I realize that > a sawtooth dive profile could use up the diluent prematurely. Rich Nordstrom: 7. Too complex to detremine. It depends on carbon dioxide production, oxygen consumption and extent of DC debt loading. Say the average diver will be able to handle 375 FSW up to 6.5 hours in water time. (including decomp. time). > #8) What is the limiting factor (discounting quick diluent use), > O2, Scrubber, other? Rich Nordstrom: 8. Scrubber and oxygen are about the same, but most likely scrubber will be the limiting factor. > #9) Have any tests been conducted to determine how much of a rise in the > water column is necessary before bubbling begins (i.e. before > you start to loose gas?). It would be nice if the bag was large > enough to allow some extra breathing space so that small depth > changes (10 or even 15' below 100' would not cause an appreciable > increase in bouyancy due to bag expansion) on the bottom do not > produce bubbling - is this indeed the case? Rich Nordstrom: 9. Bag size is one of the major factors in determining quality of work-of-breathing. Therefore the bag size is not easy to link to gas expansion characterisitcs at variable depths. Sorry. Boyle sometimes makes us do those things. The deeper you go the less the bag effects you but after experience in shallow depth you will be surprised how easy buoyancy can be controlled. It's an act your need to practice and will be surprise how easy it is. > #10) During our last conversation he stated that production was being > increased to 35. Are any of those still available and at > what price (also see #4 above). Rich Nordstrom: 10. Price is still $15K and yes there are spaces. Some people made verbal commitements. A deposit is what will actually hold your place. > #11) How do they recover from a full flood? Note: I suspect, given you > more recent posting that this will be a "No Comment". When it > comes time to actually buy a unit, a "No Comment" in this area > will not be a sufficient answer. Rich Nordstrom: 11. Of course we are happy to answer this question. Switch to open circuit (mouthpiece). Blow gas into bag (counterlung) and blow through. A dump at the bottom releases the water and some gas. Back to to closed circuit. No problem. With practice its not an difficult procedure. Warning. Don't stay in open circuit long unless you have a lot of off board gas. > #12) What PPO2 are they currently recommending (last I heard was somewhere in > the 1.2-1.3 range). Rich Nordstrom: 12. Depends on dive depth, time, exertion level, expected DC debt, and inert gas. We recommend you do not exceed 1.4 PPO2. More from Rich Nordstrom: We are late in doing this, but then no one or organization seems willing to come forward and invest. Why?? Perhaps too leading edge. Real answer. Not in the the present economy's philosophy for investment. Most people don't understand the approach or the product. They also like to invest in Geriatric related companies. Previous statement from Cis-Lunar was real for that time. Investors at the time never produced, thus the time line extends. Limited funds and staff make things hard. Only two miracles per year. Didn't we just have nine systems return from one of the deepest cave expeditions ever?? These units (MK-4P) made that exploration possible. It could never have been done with SCUBA. Our apologies for taking so long. Would any one like to invest? We are now building the MK-5P! Richard Cis-Lunar *********** Well, there you have it. Let me know if you've got any other qusestions you'd like me to forward. Aloha, Rich (Pyle)
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