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Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 04:38:32 -0700
From: George Irvine <gmiiii@in*.co*>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Richard Pyle <deepreef@bi*.bi*.Ha*.Or*>
Cc: freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*, cavers@ge*.co*, techdiver@terra.net

  It is not, other than when somebady lies to get access, then we are competing 
to prove who is telling the truth. Do you want me to elaborate, or its it just 
plain obvious? 

  What we have is a group of people who have never done anything in deep 
cave,who currently deo not cave diving nor have currently any of the 
"technology" they are promising, have no divers with any experience (they claim 
they will use ours to placate the Park),lying about their mapping abiiity, 
lyuing about their diving ability, promisiingto "tripple Georges distance"
(that 
is now 22,500) when they have yet to go one third the distance,and do not have 
the fisrt clue whatthan actually entials since none of them can even get to the 
end of our lines in the shaloow puclic acccess caves,  lying about being able
to 
dive in low vis (we actually do it), lying about understanding sat diving,
lying 
abvout vehicles, lying about rebreathers, lying about safety measures, claming 
they will need lees bailout bottles than I do, when they need three times as 
many , etc

   Rich, Stone had the balls to tell the Park that the only reason that I can
go 
farther is that I have better scooters, after he told me they were a piece of 
shit, and Zumrick told me a real engineer needed to improve them. They had huge 
Aquazepps, twice as fast as my scooters and with the same or better burn time - 
I used to have one my self, so did Sherwood and Gavin. At 5700 dollars a pop, I 
can do twice as many of my own. We all sold them to build our own that the
whole 
team could afford, and I busteed my ass building each man a scooter, only to 
have some  offcious armchair player like Zumrick give me hard time about it - 
that was the end of me talking to any of them. We go slower, but then we make
it 
back up in lack of drag with our gear style, and we make it up with physical 
condidioning to keep a low gas need.

   You can tell by the dive logs from Stone and from me that it take us less 
time with slower scooters, and significantly less gas to do the same dives

   Stone sat right there and lied, when his boy Jim King was at the Park the
day 
that Steve Irving smoked A Tunnel out to 3900 on a teckna 3x with plywood 
bulkheads. King was there doing Sally Ward

    The reason we do what we do is that we know what we are doing and do it all 
of the time. Whatever advantage comes along we can make it go farther, but now 
the things they are recommending we don't need: we are just fine with hat we
now 
have.

    We could use money for gas, and some more regs and bottles for safety, but 
nobody has come and said, "hey , how can we help out and get involved".
Instead, 
they lie their way in and try to go around us, saying that they will invite us 
to dive. None of my guys wnats to do that, or they would have voted a joint 
project a long time ago

 Stone is a good saleman, in my businees he would make millions, before he 
went to jail.

 Rich, I am sick of the bullshit out of you and Stone - we will see who can 
perform, and that is the bottom line. So far the scorecard of results is
heavily 
tilted in my favor, and it absolutely amazes me that nobody can see this.

  And it is not just me, this is a huge insult to my divers and my whole team, 
and the State is going to look pretty stupid when the smoke clears. We have put 
ten years into the Woodville Karst Plain, and Jim King still is not quaified to 
put in deco bottles , and has repeatedly proven it. That really pisses me off. 
He never offered to help us to go diving and learn how to do it, he only wants 
to pretend and be a big deal. He knows he can't stay in the water with any of 
us, with any equipment,  and neither can anyone on his team. Again, this is 
proven over and over

  You bet it is a competition, and I am going to compete in my usual manner - 
ALL OUT, and until anybody is willing to hit it as hard as my boys, there wil
be 
no contest - the majic carpet and the short cut are for fairy tales, like the 
ones Stone and King dream up

On Thu, 6 Jun 1996, Richard Pyle <deepreef@bi*.bi*.Ha*.Or*> wrote:
>
>> We now have  some "competition", pathetic as it may be, and there is 
>> nothing I like better than to win, even if it is against nothing.
>
>I didn't think cave diving was a competitive sport.
>
>Rich
>
>

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