Oh, I thought it was a power thing.

You know, you remind me of the person who seems to be on every adventure, 
the one who is whining about the bugs, the lumpy sleeping bags, the 
lukewarm coffee, it's too cold, it's too hot, it's too wet, blah blah 
blah.

You go on the adventure with the knowledge that things might not be as 
comfy as the Ritz Carlton (or CI$) but just can't help complaining about 
every little thing and making everybody around you want to kill you and 
dump over the side. Well, I think the equivalent to killing you and 
dumping you over the side has happened on this list, but you just can't 
seem to take the hint.

   Jim



>
>At 10:28 PM 2/15/96 -0500, you wrote:
>><<I hope PGP does get put into place here.>>
>>
>>I hope not. PGP is a clunkey, lame, unusable POS in it's present state.
>>
>>I know! Why don't we just move the whole list over to CIS? Then your 
>>lordship can smite those whom your grace deems unacceptable to the 
>>masses! Or you can fine their credit cards! Or you can banish those 
>>unkempt hooligans to the netherworld for their foul language and unpure 
>>thoughts!
>>
>>Why, you could be a GOD, jOEl, and toy with us, yes, and randomly CRUSH a 
>>subscriber just to teach the rest of us a lesson. Think of the 
>>possibilities, jOEl, Think!
>>
>>   Jim The Dubious
>
>
>Jim,
>
>I'm already god, Jim, didn't you know??  <g>
>
>If PGP is unstable and doesn't work, then fine. My concern is not with
>censorship or with controlling anything except the fake E-mail. I've always
>been told that faking someone's E-mail was about the worst thing one could
>do on the Internet. Of all the Netiquette "no-no's" this was the worst.
>Until the Tech diving lists. Here it is done for many reasons, to
>anonymously flame someone, to confuse others, to start fights, to defame
>someone's character, to put words into other's mouths they would never say
>and just as a prank--for fun. Are _any_ of these good things?  Well, fun
>_maybe_  . . . .
>
>I know that the flaming and the fakes and the pranks _hurt_ these lists and
>hurt the dissemination of information to people who desire it and in some
>cases I'm sure _need_ it. There's a lot of talk on here about safety, well,
>the flaming and the fakes and all _definitely_ affect the safety issue, if
>one considers the ability to get info about safe tech diving a safety issue.
>How do I know this? Because in the past and most recently when I posted a
>question about traveling with 104s I got a half dozen private E-mail
>responses. I don't believe that any of them were publicly posted as well. In
>those posts to me (all of them excellent, BTW) were two divers who said they
>posted privately to me because they didn't want to get flamed for posting
>publicly!  How many divers out there might be lurking, looking for answers
>to the safety questions they have about tech diving, but won't go public  to
>ask? It's a safety issue. 
>
>I know that these pranks hurt the lists because I recently received another
>E-mail in which a diver practically challenges me to meet him to duke it out
>because he had received a bogus E-mail telling him that I was gonna "kick
>his ass" among other things, so he wrote and at least _did_ have the
>prescence of mind to ask if the post was genuine, but also asked "when and
>where" did I want to meet for this ass whippin'! How much of this has gone
>on, contributing to the anger and the fights and the animosity here without
>contributing to the overall level of discourse? It's an issue of free
>exchange of information. It's an issue of the rights of those who, like me,
>have lurked on here for some time, reading, learning and only occasionally
>speaking out.
>
>So long as we are criticising each other, calling each other names, flaming
>each other, then the purpose of this list is lost. It's lost because only
>those with the stomach for the fight, for the potential flame and the
>fraudulent E-mails will post here on these lists. You want a silent
>majority? I'll bet that there is a host of lurkers who _would_ participate,
>who _would_ ask and discuss and who _would_ make valuable contributions to
>this list if they had some reasonable expectation that folks on here would
>behave like adults. This is not a flame at you. This is a note of 
>frustration. 
>
>George made the point the other day to me that the activity on CIS' tech
>sections was low, and it is. From time-to-time activity drops, we get into
>discussions elsewhere in the 23 sections/topics for discussion on just about
>anything dive-related, so we are not _always_ talking tech.  But a question
>is raised and someone returns from a dive trip and the discussion ensues.
>We've been discussing tech issues there (for me at least) since 1990 and
>before me since 1987 or so. So from time-to-time the chats lapse. That is
>why the Techdiver and Cavers lists are so exciting for us CIS folks, because
>this is a place _devoted_ to tech diving discussion. No BS (or so I
>thought), just info from the tech divers around the world who aren't on CIS.
>
>So, thanks for your suggestion. We already have tech, cave & hyperbaric
>medicine  sections and anyone who is interested in checking out those
>sections and the other 19 where every dive site ever visited is discussed at
>one time or another from _every_ part of the world: the Far East, the Middle
>East, Micronesia, Australia, Europe, the UK, Africa, South America, Alaska,
>Canada, Antarctica, you name it! In the Tech sections, _everything_ that has
>been discussed here has been discussed there. Hogarthian has bee a topic off
>and on since I started! PO2s and the danger of depth on air was one of the
>first things I posted about there and it was explained as fully as it has
>been here. There are lots of good, experienced folks who contribute
>regularly, but one thing we don't have, fake E-mails, challenges to fight,
>and flames are rare. 
>
>These lists are great, I love the information, the free-ranging discussions,
>the lack of any restraints on info or attitude, the willingness of divers
>all over the world to exchange info and to help others to dive more safely
>and to do more and to do it right. So, don't move the lists, please, just
>behave naturally, like adults.
>
>JoeL
>

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