Pete, not directed at you. My original post was that Farb and Pyle have 
legitimate uses for these machines. Rich just tries to extrapolate that
to other types of diving that he does not get involved in. Farb sticks
to perfecting his own application. Everyone else seems to think these
things are a magic carpet - they are not. Oliver Isler used a semi-closed
to set the distance record (he had three of them on him). A simple semi
like the odyessy with a pair of 121's would give you the equivalent of 
about 2800 cubic feet of gas at 300 feet, like having the 121's plus
30 stage bottles, but you would still have a full hogarthian doubles rig.
The problem, AGAIN, is that you need to put the 30 stage bottles in to
get your ass out if you have a failure that causes you to bail out. Having
two or three rebreathers is not the anwswer, but Isler had both the breathers 
and the bottles. We also are buddy team outfit. We must have the abiltiy to
take care of buddy. Otherwise , we would solo dive with a MK 15.5.

  However, since we can roundtrip each 1500 feet of cave at 300 with one
al 80, and have 18 fully trained and equipped deep, long range mixed gas
cave divers, we will have to find a cave that is longer than anything 
we can immagine to need anything other than what we use. The real trick is
deco and exposure, light, scooters etc. Since we are the only ones who 
have actually worked all of that out, and do it every weekend, I will go
ahead and say unequivically that WE are the experts in this type of 
diving, and will remain so until somebody steps up and proves us wrong.
This requires a set of equipment, to which I have alluded, that is obviously
not in the possession of our detractors. If they had a "set" they would 
use them, and would not be yapping like the feeder poodles that they so
obviouly are. -G


On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Peter Den Haan <denhaan@ra*.or*> wrote:
>
>
>On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, George M. Irvine III wrote:
>
>>   I am sick of reading your guys slop about fully closed rebreathers
>> and electronics. If you are right, put your money where your mouths
>
>George, you misunderstood. I was only defending the reliability of 
>electronics and agree with you that at this time you can die too easily on 
>rebreathers to even consider it for cave diving. The main argument I keep 
>hearing for rebreathers is "No bubbles" to better observe marine life, so 
>why not design a bubble silencer, ... probably cheaper. Pete
>
>

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