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Olivier, that was the only thing they did wrong  - not putting in safeties,
and it has nothing to do with your "philosophy", it has to do with the fact
that they did not have a team that could do it right. Also, the double
rebreather thing just slows you right back down again, and we would only use
it if we could not round trip the dive in a reasonable amount of time. We
would still put in safeties.

In WKPP we put in safeties, and we do the dives in one day, but we have a
full team of pros.

Hopefully Reinhard will train up some people so he does not have to Kamikaze
dive like you did in the future.

Rebreathers are a gas extension device, not a magic carpet. I see you copied
the rebreather list where you will be hailed as a hero for your methods and
especially your solo diving.

From: isler [mailto:isleroc@sp*.ch*]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 3:35 PM
To: techdiver@aq*.co*; Cavers@aquanaut.com; rebreather@nw*.co*
Subject: Redundant Rebreathers & The Doux de Coly


  Hi everybody,
  I am new on the list. I am interested in  diving with rebreathers. I speak
French so, my sincere apologies for my approximativ English.
  I red the website of Reinhard BUCHALY and Michael WALDBRENNER, and I would
like to precise some points in this following message. The translation is
good, because I gave it to a good Friend much better than me for Shakespeare
language...

  Some informations about the exploration of the Doux de Coly.

  Since 1984 the Doux de Coly is the longest known sump in Europe.

  Summary of explorations.
  1972. PJ DEBRAS reaches 352 m (a remarkable performance at that time).
  1981. Both Claude MAGNIN & Olivier ISLER dive one after the other and
MAGNIN stops at 1750 m.
  1984. MAGNIN reaches 2630 m, and ISLER stops at 3100 m (up to this time
all dives are made with open circuits).
  1991. ISLER stops at 4055 m using the RI 2000 (redundant rebreather with 3
independant circuits).
  1998. ISLER progresses another 250 m (to 4300 m) having unrolled 1150 m of
guide-line, again using the RI 2000 rebreather.
  2001. Reinhard BUCHALY and Michael WALDBRENNER reach a distance of 5000 m.

  At first, congratulations to Reinhard and Michael for their remarkable
dive. The Doux de Coly carries on and it is not the end. I am very happy to
see that my difficult dive in 1998, where I found the continuation of the
cave, has so successful consequences.

  The dive of Reinhard and Michael is reported with a lot of details on the
attractive website www.tekdyk/doux.
  Unfortunately, an error appears at the "Welcome" page of the site. The
assertion that  "... all dives were directed using the DIR philosophy
developped by the floridian cave diving team WKPP..." is NOT correct. In
fact, the dive was directed using an intermediate philosophy between that of
DIR and the rebreather redundancy developped by myself (as mentioned on the
site).

  The analysis of their dive in fact shows that they both carried 2 X 20 l
tanks on their back (return on open circuit in case of rebreather failure).
They dived as 2 divers together, as in DIR philosophy. Beyond a distance of
800 m, no safety or relay cylinders were placed in the sump. The reason was
that both divers used the double rebreather RB 80. This is undeniably my
philosophy of using Redundant Rebreathers.

  It looks evident that rebreather's redundancy, nevertheless thrown back by
the WKPP, was decisive in their successful dive. If they had followed exact
DIR philosophy, Reinhard and Michael both would have used a single
rebreather, and they would have relied on safety cylinders staged far down
into the sump (maybe 3000 m or more), impossible to carry out without a
powerful support team.

  As for myself, I am proud to note that, after 11 years of existence, my
philosophy of Rebreather Redundancy, has begun  at least to appear in
extreme diving activity. Even if it is not yet fully accepted, the idea of
Rebreather redundancy goes on, in Europe with Reinhard and Michael and in
Australia with David APPERLEY.

  I will end with a note that if Reinhard and Michael plan in the future to
cross the stage of total Rebreather Redundancy (by using an additional small
front mounted safety rebreather) they will both have quadrupled redundancy,
when, during my own solo dives, I had at my disposal triple redundancy. With
such a configuration, the crash risk becomes tiny.

  Olivier ISLER


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D636132900-10102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Olivier, that was the only thing they did wrong  - =
not putting=20
in safeties, and it has nothing to do with your "philosophy", it has to =
do with=20
the fact that they did not have a team that could do it right. Also, the =
double=20
rebreather thing just slows you right back down again, and we would only =
use it=20
if we could not round trip the dive in a reasonable amount of time. We =
would=20
still put in safeties.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636132900-10102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636132900-10102001></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D636132900-10102001><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In WKPP we put in safeties, and we =
do the dives=20
in one day, but we have a full team of pros.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636132900-10102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636132900-10102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Hopefully Reinhard will train up some people so he does not =
have to=20
Kamikaze dive like you did in the future. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636132900-10102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D636132900-10102001><FONT face=3DArial
color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Rebreathers are a gas extension device, not a magic carpet. I =
see you=20
copied the rebreather list where you will be hailed as a hero for your=20
methods and especially your solo diving.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D2><BR><B>From:</B>
isler=20
[mailto:isleroc@sp*.ch*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 08, 2001
3:35=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> techdiver@aq*.co*; Cavers@aquanaut.com;=20
rebreather@nw*.co*<BR><B>Subject:</B> Redundant Rebreathers & =
The Doux=20
de Coly<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Hi everybody,=20
  <P>I am new on the list. I am interested in  diving with =
rebreathers. I=20
  speak French so, my sincere apologies for my approximativ English. =
<BR>I red=20
  the website of Reinhard BUCHALY and Michael WALDBRENNER, and I would =
like to=20
  precise some points in this following message. The translation is =
good,=20
  because I gave it to a good Friend much better than me for Shakespeare =

  language...=20
  <P><B>Some informations about the exploration of the Doux de
Coly.</B> =

  <P>Since 1984 the Doux de Coly is the longest known sump in Europe.=20
  <P>Summary of explorations. <BR>1972. PJ DEBRAS reaches 352 m (a =
remarkable=20
  performance at that time). <BR>1981. Both Claude MAGNIN & Olivier =
ISLER=20
  dive one after the other and MAGNIN stops at 1750 m. <BR>1984. MAGNIN =
reaches=20
  2630 m, and ISLER stops at 3100 m (up to this time all dives are made =
with=20
  open circuits). <BR>1991. ISLER stops at 4055 m using the RI 2000 =
(redundant=20
  rebreather with 3 independant circuits). <BR>1998. ISLER progresses =
another=20
  250 m (to 4300 m) having unrolled 1150 m of guide-line, again using =
the RI=20
  2000 rebreather. <BR>2001. Reinhard BUCHALY and Michael WALDBRENNER =
reach a=20
  distance of 5000 m.=20
  <P>At first, congratulations to Reinhard and Michael for their =
remarkable=20
  dive. The Doux de Coly carries on and it is not the end. I am very =
happy to=20
  see that my difficult dive in 1998, where I found the continuation of =
the=20
  cave, has so successful consequences.=20
  <P>The dive of Reinhard and Michael is reported with a lot of details =
on the=20
  attractive website www.tekdyk/doux. <BR>Unfortunately, an error =
appears at the=20
  "Welcome" page of the site. The assertion that  "... all dives =
were=20
  directed using the DIR philosophy developped by the floridian cave =
diving team=20
  WKPP..." is NOT correct. In fact, the dive was directed using an =
intermediate=20
  philosophy between that of DIR and the rebreather redundancy =
developped by=20
  myself (as mentioned on the site).=20
  <P>The analysis of their dive in fact shows that they both carried 2 X =
20 l=20
  tanks on their back (return on open circuit in case of rebreather =
failure).=20
  They dived as 2 divers together, as in DIR philosophy. Beyond a =
distance of=20
  800 m, no safety or relay cylinders were placed in the sump. The =
reason was=20
  that both divers used the double rebreather RB 80. This is undeniably =
my=20
  philosophy of using Redundant Rebreathers.=20
  <P>It looks evident that rebreather's redundancy, nevertheless thrown =
back by=20
  the WKPP, was decisive in their successful dive. If they had followed =
exact=20
  DIR philosophy, Reinhard and Michael both would have used a single =
rebreather,=20
  and they would have relied on safety cylinders staged far down into =
the sump=20
  (maybe 3000 m or more), impossible to carry out without a powerful =
support=20
  team.=20
  <P>As for myself, I am proud to note that, after 11 years of =
existence, my=20
  philosophy of Rebreather Redundancy, has begun  at least to =
appear in=20
  extreme diving activity. Even if it is not yet fully accepted, the =
idea of=20
  Rebreather redundancy goes on, in Europe with Reinhard and Michael and =
in=20
  Australia with David APPERLEY.=20
  <P>I will end with a note that if Reinhard and Michael plan in the =
future to=20
  cross the stage of total Rebreather Redundancy (by using an additional =
small=20
  front mounted safety rebreather) they will both have quadrupled =
redundancy,=20
  when, during my own solo dives, I had at my disposal triple =
redundancy. With=20
  such a configuration, the crash risk becomes tiny.=20
  <P>Olivier ISLER </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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