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List:
Does this not strike everyone as something of a (to quote my nephew) a DU=
U_UH? Why not take an old - fasioned route: remove the allergen or dont d=
ive. Congestion? Remove the dairy. Hay fever/ allergies? Go in for allerg=
y analysis and resistance treatment. Mild Diabetes/hypo glycemia? Exercis=
e and diet. I grew up in a family of medical professionals and watched th=
em go from common sense "if it hurts dont do that" to manic pill pushers.=
=20
Not a rant, just sometimes ya gotta wonder. My one and only real experien=
ce being severely narced was after getting my butt up on my shoulders and=
popping sudafed with coffee because "dammit I was going diving" even tho=
my head felt like I could have busted rocks with it. I wonder how many o=
ther accidents could be traced back to the old decongestant& coffee cure.
dive safe y'all
Brock
----- Original Message -----
From: screwloo@is*.ne*
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 11:31 PM
To: Barbara/San Francisco
Cc: techdiver@aq*.co*; cavers@cavers.com; true@gu*.co*
Subject: Re: Stroke alert 20 years overdue
On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:34:16 -0800, you wrote:
>...but better now than never. Ephedra is bad news. Phenylpropanolamine (=
PPA,
>used in OTC "weight loss" pills) and pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) deserve
>similar consideration. All of these are CNS stimulants---they simulate
>epinephrine's effects on vital organs, the CNS, and blood vessels. Heart
>rate and blood pressure increase, as may anxiety. Divers who take them c=
ould
>well be more susceptible to underwater panic. And then there are drug/dr=
ug
>interactions, which can cause hypertension, changes in sensorium, and an=
y
>number of problems that are well known to the FDA but are not widely
>publicized.
It's PPA that's in the news lately.. there's serious statistical
evidence that phenylpropanolamine can cause an increased risk of
hemorrhages in women. It's a sympathomimetic.. a compound that mimics
stimulants of the nervous system found naturally in the body. So is
Pseudoephedrine (Sudafed). There may be useful parallels pertaining to
PPA & Ephedra or Pseudafed Re: diving, just remember, caution is a
GOOD thing
>The bottom line: If you take a medication or, especially, a dietary
>supplement, do your homework. The FDA approves medications based on
>recommendations of physicians who work with the manufacturer and/or who
>participate in clinical trials. More frightening are the unregulated dru=
gs,
>such as ephedra, ma huang, homeopathic remedies and botanicals. These
>remedies usually are extracts of herbs, barks, or other plant substances=
and
>can have extremely potent effects. The consumer has no way of knowing wh=
at
>s/he's ingesting.
Bottom line, the jury hasn't even plugged in the coffeepot.BUT!! there
is some real evidence that any CNS stimulant should be
contra-indicated in diving.
PPA turns up in a MULTITUDE of OTC (Over-The-Counter) products.
Many of the most popular cold remedies (Alka-Seltzer Cold Plus, Tavist
D, Triaminic) contain PPA.. most of the rest contain
pseuoephedrine..This is a no-brainer..
IF YOU'RE SICK> DON'T DIVE!!!
Reality sucks, don't it?
>Don't wait for a government agency or for anyone to warn you about these
>issues. Ephedra should have been pulled from the market years ago. I pre=
dict
>that we'll see either 1) more of these "natural" substances being banned=
by
>FDA or 2) the pharmaceutical companies getting into the business of
>"legitimizing" the so-called natural medications. The "snake oil" effect=
and
>profit potential create too lucrative a marketing opportunity to pass up=
>
>Best,
>Barbara/San Francisco
If they pull ephedra, they'll have to pull Starbuck's, too. and the
PC's are ALREADY pressing the snake oil.
I think we agree on 2 basic points
1) all decongestants are stimulants
2) divers should avoid stimulants while they're diving
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "anthony rue" <true@gu*.co*>
>To: <quest@gu*.co*>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 7:37 AM
>Subject: Stroke Alert (ephedra health risk)
>
>
>> http://www.nejm.org/content/haller/1.asp
>>
>> Just released this morning, by The New England Journal of Medicine:
>>
>> Because of its potential public health implications, this article is b=
eing
>> released before its publication date. The final version of the report =
will
>> be published on December 21.
>>
>> Dietary supplements that contain ephedra alkaloids (sometimes called m=
a
>> huang) are widely promoted and used in the United States as a means of
>> losing weight and increasing energy. In the light of recently reported
>> adverse events related to use of these products, the Food and Drug
>> Administration (FDA) has proposed limits on the dose and duration of u=
se
>of
>> such supplements. The FDA requested an independent review of reports o=
f
>> adverse events related to the use of supplements that contained ephedr=
a
>> alkaloids to assess causation and to estimate the level of risk the us=
e of
>> these supplements poses to consumers.
>> ...
>>
>> Ephedrine and related alkaloids have been associated with adverse
>> cardiovascular events, including acute myocardial infarction, severe
>> hypertension, myocarditis, and lethal cardiac arrhythmias. (10,11)
>> Constriction of coronary arteries and, in some cases, vasospasm are
>believed
>> to be the mechanisms of myocarditis and myocardial infarction. The
>> adrenergic effects of ephedrine shorten cardiac refractory periods,
>> permitting the development of reentrant cardiac arrhythmias. Ephedrine=
can
>> predispose patients to both hemorrhagic and ischemic stroke. (12)
>> Subarachnoid hemorrhage is thought to be a result of the hypertensive
>action
>> of ephedrine, which can be short lived, or of cerebral vasculitis, whi=
ch
>has
>> been described in association with a variety of sympathomimetic drugs.
>> (13,14) Thrombotic stroke is presumably related to vasoconstriction of
>large
>> cerebral arteries, which leads to local thrombosis as a result of stas=
is
>and
>> sympathomimetic-induced platelet activation.
>>
>> Because of the severity of the adverse events that we reviewed and, in
>> particular, the occurrence of events that caused permanent disability =
and
>> death, we conclude that dietary supplements that contain ephedra alkal=
oids
>> pose a serious health risk to some users. Although the incidence of
>serious
>> adverse effects cannot be determined from our analysis, our findings
>arouse
>> concern about the risks of these products, given that they have no
>> scientifically established benefits. Our findings indicate the need fo=
r a
>> better understanding of the determinants of individual susceptibility =
to
>the
>> serious adverse effects of dietary supplements containing ephedra
>alkaloids
>> so that appropriate dosing guidelines and warnings can be devised.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co*
>> For additional commands, e-mail: quest-help@gu*.co*
>>___________________________________________________________
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana;
border:none;"><DIV><BR></DIV> <DI=
V>List:</DIV> <DIV><BR>Does this not strike everyone as something of a
(t=
o quote my nephew) a DUU_UH? Why not take an old - fasioned route: remove=
the allergen or dont dive. Congestion? Remove the dairy. Hay fever/ alle=
rgies? Go in for allergy analysis and resistance treatment. Mil=
d Diabetes/hypo glycemia? Exercise and diet. I grew up in a family of med=
ical professionals and watched them go from common sense "if it hurts don=
t do that" to manic pill pushers. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not
a ran=
t, just sometimes ya gotta wonder. My one and only real experience being =
severely narced was after getting my butt up on my shoulders and popping =
sudafed with coffee because "dammit I was going diving" even tho my head =
felt like I could have busted rocks with it. I wonder how many other acci=
dents could be traced back to the old decongestant& coffee cure.</DIV=
> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dive safe y'all</DIV>
<DIV>Brock</DIV> <DIV>&nbs=
p;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV st=
yle=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D=
"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; FONT-COLOR: black"><B>From:</B>&n=
bsp;screwloo@is*.ne*</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
Arial"><B>Sent:</=
B> Wednesday, November 08, 2000 11:31 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 1=
0pt Arial"><B>To:</B> Barbara/San Francisco</DIV> <DIV
style=3D"FONT=
: 10pt Arial"><B>Cc:</B> techdiver@aq*.co*; cavers@cavers.com; =
true@gu*.co*</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt
Arial"><B>Subject:</B> R=
e: Stroke alert 20 years overdue</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>On Wed, 8 Nov
2000 =
14:34:16 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>>...but better now than never. Ephed=
ra is bad news. Phenylpropanolamine (PPA,<BR>>used in OTC "weight loss=
" pills) and pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) deserve<BR>>similar considerati=
on. All of these are CNS stimulants---they simulate<BR>>epinephrine's =
effects on vital organs, the CNS, and blood vessels. Heart<BR>>rate an=
d blood pressure increase, as may anxiety. Divers who take them could<BR>=
>well be more susceptible to underwater panic. And then there are drug=
/drug<BR>>interactions, which can cause hypertension, changes in senso=
rium, and any<BR>>number of problems that are well known to the FDA bu=
t are not widely<BR>>publicized.<BR><BR>It's PPA that's in the news
la=
tely.. there's serious statistical<BR>evidence that phenylpropanolamine c=
an cause an increased risk of<BR>hemorrhages in women. It's a sympa=
thomimetic.. a compound that mimics<BR>stimulants of the nervous system f=
ound naturally in the body. So is<BR>Pseudoephedrine (Sudafed). There may=
be useful parallels pertaining to<BR>PPA & Ephedra or Pseudafed Re: =
diving, just remember, caution is a<BR>GOOD
thing<BR><BR><BR>>The bott=
om line: If you take a medication or, especially, a dietary<BR>>supple=
ment, do your homework. The FDA approves medications based on<BR>>reco=
mmendations of physicians who work with the manufacturer and/or who<BR>&g=
t;participate in clinical trials. More frightening are the unregulated dr=
ugs,<BR>>such as ephedra, ma huang, homeopathic remedies and botanical=
s. These<BR>>remedies usually are extracts of herbs, barks, or other p=
lant substances and<BR>>can have extremely potent effects. The consume=
r has no way of knowing what<BR>>s/he's ingesting.<BR><BR>Bottom
line,=
the jury hasn't even plugged in the coffeepot.BUT!! there<BR>is some rea=
l evidence that any CNS stimulant should be<BR>contra-indicated in diving=
<BR> PPA turns up in a MULTITUDE of OTC (Over-The-Counter) p=
roducts.<BR>Many of the most popular cold remedies (Alka-Seltzer Cold Plu=
s, Tavist<BR>D, Triaminic) contain PPA.. most of the rest contain<BR>pseu=
oephedrine..This is a no-brainer..<BR> IF YOU'RE =
SICK> DON'T DIVE!!!<BR>Reality sucks, don't it?<BR><BR>>Don't
wait =
for a government agency or for anyone to warn you about these<BR>>issu=
es. Ephedra should have been pulled from the market years ago. I predict<=
BR>>that we'll see either 1) more of these "natural" substances being =
banned by<BR>>FDA or 2) the pharmaceutical companies getting int=
o the business of<BR>>"legitimizing" the so-called natural medications=
The "snake oil" effect and<BR>>profit potential create too lucrative=
a marketing opportunity to pass
up.<BR>><BR>>Best,<BR>>Barbara/=
San Francisco<BR><BR>If they pull ephedra, they'll have to pull Starbuck'=
s, too. and the<BR>PC's are ALREADY pressing the snake oil.<BR> I t=
hink we agree on 2 basic points<BR>1) all decongestants are stimulants<BR=
>2) divers should avoid stimulants while they're
diving<BR><BR><BR>>--=
--- Original Message -----<BR>>From: "anthony rue" <true@gu*.co*>=
;<BR>>To: <quest@gu*.co*><BR>>Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 200=
0 7:37 AM<BR>>Subject: Stroke Alert (ephedra health
risk)<BR>><BR>&=
gt;<BR>>>
http://www.nejm.org/content/haller/1.asp<BR>>><BR>&=
gt;> Just released this morning, by The New England Journal of Medicin=
e:<BR>>><BR>>> Because of its potential public health implica=
tions, this article is being<BR>>> released before its publication =
date. The final version of the report will<BR>>> be published on De=
cember 21.<BR>>><BR>>> Dietary supplements that contain ephed=
ra alkaloids (sometimes called ma<BR>>> huang) are widely promoted =
and used in the United States as a means of<BR>>> losing weight and=
increasing energy. In the light of recently reported<BR>>> adverse=
events related to use of these products, the Food and Drug<BR>>> A=
dministration (FDA) has proposed limits on the dose and duration of use<B=
R>>of<BR>>> such supplements. The FDA requested an independent r=
eview of reports of<BR>>> adverse events related to the use of supp=
lements that contained ephedra<BR>>> alkaloids to assess causation =
and to estimate the level of risk the use of<BR>>> these supplement=
s poses to consumers.<BR>>> ...<BR>>><BR>>>
Ephedrine a=
nd related alkaloids have been associated with adverse<BR>>> cardio=
vascular events, including acute myocardial infarction, severe<BR>>>=
; hypertension, myocarditis, and lethal cardiac arrhythmias. (10,11)<BR>&=
gt;> Constriction of coronary arteries and, in some cases, vasospasm a=
re<BR>>believed<BR>>> to be the mechanisms of myocarditis and my=
ocardial infarction. The<BR>>> adrenergic effects of ephedrine shor=
ten cardiac refractory periods,<BR>>> permitting the development of=
reentrant cardiac arrhythmias. Ephedrine can<BR>>> predispose pati=
ents to both hemorrhagic and ischemic stroke. (12)<BR>>> Subarachno=
id hemorrhage is thought to be a result of the hypertensive<BR>>action=
<BR>>> of ephedrine, which can be short lived, or of cerebral vascu=
litis, which<BR>>has<BR>>> been described in association with a =
variety of sympathomimetic drugs.<BR>>> (13,14) Thrombotic stroke i=
s presumably related to vasoconstriction of<BR>>large<BR>>> cere=
bral arteries, which leads to local thrombosis as a result of stasis<BR>&=
gt;and<BR>>> sympathomimetic-induced platelet activation.<BR>>&g=
t;<BR>>> Because of the severity of the adverse events that we revi=
ewed and, in<BR>>> particular, the occurrence of events that caused=
permanent disability and<BR>>> death, we conclude that dietary sup=
plements that contain ephedra alkaloids<BR>>> pose a serious health=
risk to some users. Although the incidence of<BR>>serious<BR>>>=
adverse effects cannot be determined from our analysis, our findings<BR>=
>arouse<BR>>> concern about the risks of these products, given t=
hat they have no<BR>>> scientifically established benefits. Our fin=
dings indicate the need for a<BR>>> better understanding of the det=
erminants of individual susceptibility to<BR>>the<BR>>> serious =
adverse effects of dietary supplements containing ephedra<BR>>alkaloid=
s<BR>>> so that appropriate dosing guidelines and warnings can be d=
evised.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
-----------------------------=
----------------------------------------<BR>>> To unsubscribe, e-ma=
il: quest-unsubscribe@gu*.co*<BR>>> For additional commands, e-mail=
: quest-help@gu*.co*<BR>>><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BO=
DY></HTML><DIV><BR>____________________________________________________
__=
_____<BR>Get more from your time online. FREE MSN Explorer download : ht=
tp://explorer.msn.com</DIV>
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