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In a message dated 10/18/2000 4:26:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
robsteffen@ea*.ne* writes:
<< ... I can see the same in cave diving, the instructor has
four student, and doesn't take the time to insure they all learn to run the
reel. Someone slips through the cracks... >>
Hi Rob,
I am not aware of any agency that permits a single instructor to take four
cave students into a cave. Are you?
Take care and dive safe, Scott
In a message dated 10/18/2000 4:26:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
robsteffen@ea*.ne* writes:
Subj: Re: cave lines
Date: 10/18/2000 4:26:07 PM US Mountain Standard Time
From: robsteffen@ea*.ne* (robsteffen:First robsteffen:Last)
Reply-to: robsteffen@ea*.ne* (robsteffen:First robsteffen:Last)
To: lcarlson@n-*.co*, ScottBonis@ao*.co*, swhac@pc*.gu*.ne*
CC: cavers@cavers.com
I am in full agreement with what Hunsucker said. There are some
instructors out there that aren't worth shit. It is when they teach the
IANTD or TDI course vs the CDS or NACD. When I was teaching wreck diving
out West, you would be amazed at the number of times on the boat I would
have divers come up to me and ask when did they start having to learn to run
reels in the class. I can see the same in cave diving, the instructor has
four student, and doesn't take the time to insure they all learn to run the
reel. Someone slips through the cracks.
I am also in full agreement that the perminate lines need to start
deeper in the cave, 250' isn't a stretch for me.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Carlson" <lcarlson@n-*.co*>
To: <ScottBonis@ao*.co*>; <swhac@pc*.gu*.ne*>
Cc: <cavers@cavers.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:15 PM
Subject: RE: cave lines
> However,
>
> I've often wondered why it is that the lines in mexico are cut back so
deep
> (some in excess of a full primary reel). Can you explain the value of
this
> other than keeping guides employed down there? Make it known that I have
> no qualms about running reel up to say 250' in or so but beyond that I
> question motive? Observation: Florida, lines too near entrance (read, put
> LR back where it belongs). Mexico, lines too far. How many people dive
on
> their own in mexico (sans guide) vs in Florida? I bet you the single most
> compelling reason is locating the main line. By the way, I am aware of
the
> cavern dives there and maybe the answer lies in the fact that some
'cavern'
> dives in Mexico are actually 'Cave' dives and the buck wins again.
>
> Lance
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ScottBonis@ao*.co* [SMTP:ScottBonis@ao*.co*]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 3:33 PM
> To: swhac@pc*.gu*.ne*
> Cc: cavers@cavers.com; John E. Ivanic
> Subject: Re: cave lines
>
> In a message dated 10/18/2000 10:26:48 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> swhac@pc*.gu*.ne* writes:
>
> << ... That line was only moved because the instructors in the community
do
> not want to take the time, and need to pass students that can't, to teach
> people how to run a reel... >>
>
>
> Hi Scott,
>
> I teach in Yucatan and have not done much diving in Florida, but I find it
> almost inconceivable that any cave instructor for any agency would
actually
> pass a cave student who wasn't fully capable of running a reel.
>
> Is that what you're saying? Do you have any examples of this? To me this
> would be equivalent to giving a loaded gun with a hair trigger and the
> safety
> off, to a five year old and saying "Here, play with this!"
>
> Take care and dive safe, Scott
>
>
> In a message dated 10/18/2000 10:26:48 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
> swhac@pc*.gu*.ne* writes:
>
> Subj: Re: cave lines
> Date: 10/18/2000 10:26:48 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From: swhac@pc*.gu*.ne* (Scott Hunsucker)
> To: ivanic@di*.ne* (John E. Ivanic), cavers@cavers.com
> (cavers@cavers.com)
>
> Why should someone be hung out to dry because they removed a geriatric
> sized unneeded arrow? What purpose did that oversize piece of plastic
> serve? If normal arrows work in every other cave in the world, what makes
> Little River so damn special has to merit a different arrow? Little River
> is just a cave like every other cave in this state, it is not sacred nor
> special. That large arrow was nothing more than cave trash. What is
next,
> giant arrows at every split in every cave for every diver that can't
either
> read a map or posses the cognitive ability to navigate?
> Depending on where the line in question was I might agree with you.
If
> they cut back the main line away from the entrance, back to where it used
> to be, then that is great. That line was only moved because the
> instructors in the community do not want to take the time, and need to
pass
> students that can't, to teach people how to run a reel. The same thing
> happened in Peacock, laziness and complacency on the half of the
instructor
> should not equal less work for the student, it does but it should not. If
> the line was removed from somewhere in the cave that might be a different
> story.
> Scott Hunsucker
>
> At 09:57 AM 10/18/00 -0400, John E. Ivanic wrote:
> >I heard that someone removed some line out of little river, and also
> >stole the large arrow at the serpentine, is this true? The person
> >resposible should be hung out to dry.
> >
> >John
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